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 Maybe the off topic stuff was a bad idea....
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ChristinaP
Permanent Resident

USA
1089 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  5:49:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit ChristinaP's Homepage Send ChristinaP a Private Message
Sorry Clara... I know you added those a the request of a bunch of us, but I think it's alienating people. There are other boards that are for politics, health, and social issues, maybe this should go back to just knitting related.

I know there's a warning about entering at your own risk, but I'm wondering if these posts have really changed the tone around here.

Everybody feel free to disagree. I personally don't mind the OT stuff, but I don't want to lose any more members!

Christina P.

In Maryland
Blog: http://christinasknitting.blogspot.com
Pictures: http://photos.yahoo.com/cpikas

CatherineM
Permanent Resident

USA
3363 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  5:54:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit CatherineM's Homepage Send CatherineM a Private Message
I don't mind the OT stuff at all. Those who want to post there can, those who don't aren't forced to even glance at it. I am a skim and skip reader for time reasons, but I'd rather have a choice of a variety of topics than a stilted "stay on topic or else" forum. So far it has served to isolate the non-knitting in a separate area, so it's serving its purpose.

Catherine
http://www.yorkiedog.blogspot.com
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mokey
Permanent Resident

15375 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  6:48:33 PM  Show Profile Send mokey a Private Message
I love them! Oout of a large member base such as KR has people are bound to come and go. I have received email from KR folks who have left, and it had nothing to do with the Enter AT Own Risks Section.

I also fail to see how one can be alienated by strangers. There are many people on KR who I get along with better than others, and there are some members I'm not so fond of. But I've not met them face to face so whether they agree with me or anyone else doesn't matter.

I think it's important to have them here because I don't feel like signing up to yet another board.

Monika

"There is no beauty in the finest cloth if it makes hunger and unhappiness." Gandhi
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Susan T-O
Permanent Resident

USA
2481 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  7:06:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Susan T-O's Homepage Send Susan T-O a Private Message
I, too, enjoy the Enter at Your Own Risk topic areas. While I haven't read every post on every topic, those that I have read have been quite civil. Yes, people disagree on them, but how dull the world would be if we all thought identically!

--Susan T-O in Long Beach CA

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression." --Thomas Paine
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CatherineM
Permanent Resident

USA
3363 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  7:13:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit CatherineM's Homepage Send CatherineM a Private Message
As an Old Hag of the Internet (1200 baud modem mean anything to you?) I've seen people stomp off countless times. It used to bother me, now I don't care. We are here because it amuses us, no more, no less. If it ceases to amuse you move on, but don't slam the door on your way out, it's just so snitty. I avoid ugliness and strive to be polite, but I express my ideas in a detached way. I also don't much care if someone leaves when no ugliness is involved. The "at your own risk" area has been remarkably, admirably civilized and gentle. We can't be responsible for hypersensitive reactions along the way, because this is the Internet - it's the Wild West without actual gunfights. If the tone continues in its opinionated but civil way, this is something rare and admirable, like everything else about KR.

Catherine
http://www.yorkiedog.blogspot.com
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geekgirl
Chatty Knitter

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  7:30:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit geekgirl's Homepage Send geekgirl a Private Message
I really appreciate the time to hear what others have to say- outside of my own small world of mostly liberal, sociology grad students. I love learning about other's views on things (from dpns to politics)- even a view point that I don't necessarily agree with is important for me to understand.

I think these forums (and I've been on many specifically political forums) have been the most pleasant and interesting that I have EVER been on. I think knitters are just the BEST!

-Wendy in Wisconsin
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caramel93117
Chatty Knitter

USA
322 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  9:01:07 PM  Show Profile Send caramel93117 a Private Message
Despite the not so fun recent stuff, I too think that the off topic forums was a good idea. Certainly we do not have to go in there, but we now have somewhere to post when seeking out opinions or thoughts on very non-knitting subjects. I definitely inderstand where Christina is coming from, though. Maybe it's because I'm so new, but it did affect me to hear that people were leaving. I value each of you and hope to learn so much more about you through KR. EVEN if it's something I might not have wanted to know.

Melissa

"Take your needle, my child, and work your pattern--it will come out a rose by and by. Life is like that...one stitch at a time taken patiently."--Oliver Wendall
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vicky by the bay
Permanent Resident

USA
4768 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  9:54:54 PM  Show Profile Send vicky by the bay a Private Message
I don't really mind the off topic subjects, but I do notice a big change in the forum. I'm not sure what is causing it and am a bit worried to be honest. It doesn't seem as friendly lately to me.

Vicky (Queen O'Yarn archivist-QYA)
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OKnitter
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
398 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  9:57:26 PM  Show Profile Send OKnitter a Private Message
I agree with you, Vicky.

Ana
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Josh A.
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
561 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2004 :  11:39:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Josh A.'s Homepage Send Josh A. a Private Message
The only thing that worries me about the AYOR section + this thread is the risk of creating the very things some people fear merely by focusing on it.

For example, friendliness begets friendliness... I try to respond to at least some of the Introductions because I remember how warm and welcomed the responses to my introduction were. Perhaps if one is worried about the friendliness here, the most effective way to address the issue would be to model friendliness all the more?

I also think our meta-discussions about the AYOR discussions help contextualize them for new users, who maybe aren't familiar with other boards, or the 'net at all. When we celebrate those discussions as being civil and intelligent, I think we make it easier for people to jump in and express themselves. Yeah, they see 11 pages of same-sex marriage thread, and a little on-fire icon, but if they see posts like Catherine's they can jump in with an expectation of not only being treated fairly, but treating others fairly as well.

When we stress about those discussions, I wonder if we don't sacrifice a productive context for a destructive one and thereby actually foster rowdier, more violent, posts.


Josh A.
N. California -> Rochester, NY
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vicky by the bay
Permanent Resident

USA
4768 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  01:11:57 AM  Show Profile Send vicky by the bay a Private Message
Josh, I'm kind of giggling at your response. I feel the forum isn't as friendly as it has been in the past...you responded about greeting new members...I have ALWAYS greeted all the newcomers on the board! They call me the welcome wagon lady! So if you were discussing my posting I think you haven't been around long enough to know my history. I am very friendly and outgoing. Love the forum....maybe you think this is a tame website compared to others you've gone to, but it's definitely changed and not for the better. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, but I am getting so many responsed that feel the exact same way I know I'm not the only person who has been here awhile that feels the way I feel. So yes, I agree greeting new members is a very friendly gesture and I make sure I do so because a year ago the people already here did the same for me....so I do it for other's coming in.

QUOTE "When we stress about those discussions, I wonder if we don't sacrifice a productive context for a destructive one and thereby actually foster rowdier, more violent, posts.'


Knitting should never be stressful...this forum was rarely stressful until about a month ago....

Vicky (Queen O'Yarn archivist-QYA)
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caramel93117
Chatty Knitter

USA
322 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  01:34:34 AM  Show Profile Send caramel93117 a Private Message
quote:
QUOTE "When we stress about those discussions, I wonder if we don't sacrifice a productive context for a destructive one and thereby actually foster rowdier, more violent, posts.'


Knitting should never be stressful...this forum was rarely stressful until about a month ago....


I couldn't agree more.

Thak you ,Vicky! I know you don't need the stress, but I hope for our sakes that you don't go. You would be sorely missed.


Melissa

"Take your needle, my child, and work your pattern--it will come out a rose by and by. Life is like that...one stitch at a time taken patiently."--Oliver Wendall
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Da Stitcher
Chatty Knitter

USA
216 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  05:17:58 AM  Show Profile Send Da Stitcher a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by vicky by the bay Knitting should never be stressful...


As a newbie knitter, I'd say knitting is very stressful at times and this forum can be extremely stressful even if one doesn't read the OT areas. Trying to learn all the new-to-me techniques, understanding the gab, researching the different kinds of yarns, trying to justify starting another project when one wasn't finished, realizing that one has to hide one's entertainment from one's spouse so as not to upset them by the amount of fiber in the house, finding out that acrylic (which is all I can afford and now have tons of hidden from my spouse is not acceptable), discovering the sweater I just knit for my boyfriend is going to destroy our relationship, suddenly realizing I've been using the wrong needles and have to buy the most expensive in order to have the right ones.....

quote:
this forum was rarely stressful until about a month ago....

And I dare say, for anyone not reading the OT areas, it hasn't been any more stressful than usual. No one has insisted that any one must read topics that disturb them. If poking oneself in the eye repeatedly with a knitting needle hurts, then one probably should stop doing it. Stress is relative and what might be agonizingly stressful (having dinner with my mother) for me might be an enjoyable experience (and is) for anyone else in the world.

I have to agree with Catherine
quote:
I've seen people stomp off countless times....We can't be responsible for hypersensitive reactions along the way
If one stomps off s/he was generally looking for a reason to leave and it usually doesn't have anything to do with actual topic of discussion. At some point we have to let people be responsible for their own actions and reactions. If one doesn't like conflict, then one shouldn't deliberately choose put oneself in a position of being exposed to conflict. Nor should one expect others not to discuss a topic because it's stressful to oneself.

I think it might be interesting to know exactly how the membership numbers have changed say in the last two weeks.


Becky
da_stitcher@yahoo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tucson_socknitters
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Jolene
Sustaining Member

USA
315 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  05:37:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jolene's Homepage Send Jolene a Private Message
Wow! I sure have been missing alot lately! I have NEVER read the Own Risk topics because I am here for knitting and knitting only...I do not wish to hear about others politics and they do not want to share mine. Life is toooo short people, we must enjoy EVERY day we are here.
Being that I have not read these topics -and will not- I do not know what the **### is going on, but take a deep breath everyone and take a look at the beautiful day outside and enjoy the fact that we are all here to enjoy this georgous planet.
Just my 2 cents....
B. Jolene
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Jolene
Sustaining Member

USA
315 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  05:39:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jolene's Homepage Send Jolene a Private Message
Wow! I sure have been missing alot lately! I have NEVER read the Own Risk topics because I am here for knitting and knitting only...I do not wish to hear about others politics and they do not want to share mine. Life is toooo short people, we must enjoy EVERY day we are here.
Being that I have not read these topics -and will not- I do not know what the **### is going on, but take a deep breath everyone and take a look at the beautiful day outside and enjoy the fact that we are all here to enjoy this georgous planet.
Just my 2 cents....
B. Jolene
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GFTC
Permanent Resident

USA
6331 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  06:17:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit GFTC's Homepage Send GFTC a Private Message
Vicky is 100% on the money - the tone of KR has totally changed. It was always like a coffee klatch and when it got too sweet, we could depend on the 2 posters (I always think of them as the "Spice Girls") who will always come in and tell anyone why they are wrong, but of course we love them and their posts and they are so part of the group. Maybe we are just going from being a coffee klatch to being a cocktail party. Well, IMHO, a cocktail party is easy to find, but a warm and understanding place of friends, not so easy.
There is a post under Household Items that, although we are adults, is just unnecessary and I think is the reason that our favorite 15 year old was so upset.


knitting hiatus: nothing on needles since 2/20/04
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OKnitter
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
398 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  07:42:42 AM  Show Profile Send OKnitter a Private Message
I have been a member since 2001 and I have to agree with Vicky. The forum has changed.

Ana
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Boogie
Permanent Resident

USA
3073 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  07:54:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Boogie's Homepage Send Boogie a Private Message
I do see the tone has changed, but have you noticed the number of new members lately? With more members adding, the tone is going to change. It's no longer the smallish group that it was. I don't think the new forums have anything to do with the change.
I agree with Becky that if someone is stomping off then they are probably looking for a reason too. I'm not sure anyone here is really trying to be mean to one another.I know I've done it, tone and meaning can easily be mistaken in writing. We write as if we are saying something and we know the "tone", but most people cannot read "tone" and intention. So its normal that sometimes we get our feelings hurt or something. That's when we need to be adults and try to sort it out privately with the person(s) that we have a problem with.
Anyway, just sharing my opinions.

:) amy
www.theboogerblog.blogspot.com
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storiesr
Sustaining Member

694 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  08:18:46 AM  Show Profile Send storiesr a Private Message
I have been around for a little over two years and know that I have acquired LOTS of information, shared some as well, and met some great knitters.
I am not sure what to think here. At first I looked at the OT category and read a few posts but have not been back since. For no particular reason other than the fact that I come here to share knitting stories, facts, etc. That category is just not my cup of tea. If I am going to debate an issue I like to do it face-to-face so there is immediate feedback.
But, it would be interesting to hear from Clara if new members are appearing to post primarily in this category. I find it hard to believe that someone would join the forum just for debate...so with that being said I think we just need to realize that there are some knitters who have opinions that are just as strong as their knitting philosophy...does that make sense??
I have not really thought about the mood change on the forum; I still check it daily and respond when I feel I can assist. I hope all you who have helped me in the past continue to hang around.
And, maybe I am out of the loop, but who are the Spice Girls on the forum??

Hey! Maybe there should be an admission fee to enter the OT category!! Great way to generate more funds and then we could see who really has a strong stand and who is out there just to ruffle feathers for the hell of it!!

Laura in NE Indiana

We may not be able to control the wind, but we can direct our sails!
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AJ Wisch
Chatty Knitter

USA
296 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  08:36:26 AM  Show Profile Send AJ Wisch a Private Message
Sometimes people need to express themselves about a touchy subject, and KR might be the only non-threatening place they have to do that.

AJ
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hobbitknitter
Permanent Resident

USA
2285 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2004 :  3:46:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit hobbitknitter's Homepage Send hobbitknitter a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GFTC


There is a post under Household Items that, although we are adults, is just unnecessary and I think is the reason that our favorite 15 year old was so upset.




Thank you so much, and yes you're quite right.
BTW I didn't "stomp off"! [img]http://www.jimlynch.com/images/icon_hammer.gif[/img]
*grin*


S. Eliz.
 Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!
Keep on knitting on!
http://knitonespintoo.blog-city.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkvestknitting/
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