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rebeccaL
Seriously Hooked
721 Posts |
 Posted - 09/30/2004 : 07:53:28 AM
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I recently read an article on silkmoths, and I read you can harvest silk from cocoons that have been "hatched" from, but you don't get the same quality that you get from the boiled cocoons.
Does anyone know if there are any yarn companies that actually do this? Being a former vegetarian and animal lover, I hate the idea of little boiled caterpillars, but silk is such a nice substance.
Rebecca
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Visit my blog at
http://www.spacesheep.com/Fiber/knitblog.html |
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Spinnerella
Permanent Resident
1040 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 08:35:21 AM
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| If you feel that strongly, try Soy Silk, which is made from the byproducts of the soybean (tofu) industry. Personally, I am of the belief that God put all creatures on the earth for man's use, so I can't get worked up about boiling a worm to use for clothing. It may well be that's what God had in mind when creating the silkworm...who am I to question? |
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Atavistic
Permanent Resident
6604 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 08:38:02 AM
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Tussah silk is what you're looking for. Google "tussah silk yarn" or "organic silk yarn" or "vegetarian silk yarn."
“There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches." Ray Bradbury |
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xmasberry
Seriously Hooked
826 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 08:58:28 AM
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thanks biodb8er. i've been wondering about this as well.
holly x
"do what you love, love what you do, leave the world a better place and don't pick your nose" -Jef Mallett |
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achrisvet
Permanent Resident
USA
5986 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 09:11:50 AM
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Tussah silk is from a wild silk worm. They're still killed to get the silk.
http://www.treenwaysilks.com/inout_silk.html
"Tussah is the common name given to the Antherea silk producing caterpillars and their silk. These silkworms have a different diet from their Bombyx mori cousins. Whether they are reared in the tropics or temperate climate the leaves they eat contain tannin, the ingredient in tea that leaves a stain in your cup. The natural colour of tussah silk is a warm honey beige.
Tussah silkworms are protected and harvested in jungles and forests by indigenous peoples in Asia. These silkworms have rejected all attempts at total domestication. Tussah fibres are a little coarser than the cultivated Bombyx.
The process of unleashing the silken strands and making different quality yarns is basically the same as used for Bombyx. "
And here's the problem with letting the larvae mature:
"If the pupa is allowed to mature, the emerging moth emits a brown juice which disintegrates the silk and forms a hole for the moth to escape, breaking the fibre into short pieces that cannot be reeled. "
The cocoon is all made of one long fiber as long as 12 football fields, according to this article. That's amazing!
I found this comment by googling vegetarian silk yarn
"Silk
Silk comes from silkworms, which are not true worms but the caterpillars of the silk moth, Bombyx mori. The caterpillars will only eat mulberry leaves and when they are ready to pupate, they protect themselves by spinning the silk round and round themselves to form a cocoon. Typically, each worm produces a mile and a half of continuous thread. When metamorphosis is complete and the moth is ready to leave its cocoon, it secretes an alkali which eats its way through the thread. This spoils the thread for spinning as it is no longer continuous. So, in order to get good quality silk, the moths must be killed before they leave the cocoon. This is done by suffocation with steam or heating them in an oven. Only a small number necessary for breeding the next generation are allowed to complete their lifecycle. Whether or not the pupae feel any pain whilst being suffocated or subjected to heat is a debatable, but most vegetarians consider silk is not acceptable as it cannot be produced without the death of a living creature. "
http://www.jainworld.com/society/jainfood/clothing.htm
This website (above) has an objection to almost every fiber. Even cotton is criticized because of the pesticides used.
Anita
See my completed projects!
http://www.picturetrail.com/achrisvet |
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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident
USA
12598 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 09:16:12 AM
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I second the soy silk recommendation. I didn't realize the worms had to be killed to harvest silk, which is such a shame (former vegetarian here, too!)
Soy silk is great for the environment (as BessH told my stepson, it's soy poop... Okay, it isn't really, but it's basically tofu whey) and reacts much the same as silk in spinning, dying, and knitting purposes.
Here's a great source: http://www.aurorasilk.com/info/peacesilk.shtml
which also sells the "peace worms" so you can get your own!
"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com |
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Atavistic
Permanent Resident
6604 Posts |
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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident
USA
12598 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 09:26:12 AM
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There is confusion as to whether or not Tussah requires killing the worms. I've heard both ways, that the worms are allowed to leave on their own, and also that the only difference is the kind of leaf the worms eat... if it matters to you (as it does to me) I'd recommend staying away from it until you know for sure. That Aurora Silk site looks interesting. I'm going to do a little more looking, and then I might consider ordering some of their peace worms! (Of course, if the cats just eat them, it kind of defeats the purpose, so that's a consideration for me, too)
"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com |
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knittykat
Seriously Hooked
USA
710 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 09:29:39 AM
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Soy poop!!! LOL.
Kat in Illinois |
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jennidina
Gabber Extraordinaire
USA
485 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 10:52:02 AM
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if the soy silk is only "soy poop" (which i think is hysterical) if one were to buy tofu, is there a way to make it and spin it yourself?
just curious
Jenn
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jennidina/ (password, jennidina)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/2knitis2love/
www.theknittinkitten.blogspot.com
i wasn't busy enough being a fulltime student, studying, music, looking for work, playing around with computers, starting a club in school, working in my house, playing with my cats, etc... Thats why i took up Knitting |
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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident
USA
12598 Posts |
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xmasberry
Seriously Hooked
826 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 11:24:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by achrisvet
http://www.jainworld.com/society/jainfood/clothing.htm
This website (above) has an objection to almost every fiber. Even cotton is criticized because of the pesticides used.
Anita
makes sense since they are Jains. Personally, i think it is hard to get more restrictive than that. I can't even give up dairy products 
this thread has done 2 things for me: 1. made me look into soysilk again, and 2. made me consider spinning (not on a bike, i'd rather do that outside). like i need another interest.
holly x
"do what you love, love what you do, leave the world a better place and don't pick your nose" -Jef Mallett |
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rebeccaL
Seriously Hooked
721 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 12:38:10 PM
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Here's the URL that made me think of it (interesing site on the silk industry by the way):
http://www.wormspit.com/polyspin.htm
He proves you CAN spin Tussah silk without killing the caterpillars.
The Tussah moths are gorgeous too... go to the root of the URL and check out some of the other pages.
Amanda, that was totally the kind of yarn I was looking for. Thanks!
Rebecca
Rebecca
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Visit my blog at
http://www.spacesheep.com/Fiber/knitblog.html |
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achrisvet
Permanent Resident
USA
5986 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 2:35:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RoseByAny
There is confusion as to whether or not Tussah requires killing the worms. I've heard both ways, that the worms are allowed to leave on their own, and also that the only difference is the kind of leaf the worms eat... if it matters to you (as it does to me) I'd recommend staying away from it until you know for sure. That Aurora Silk site looks interesting. I'm going to do a little more looking, and then I might consider ordering some of their peace worms! (Of course, if the cats just eat them, it kind of defeats the purpose, so that's a consideration for me, too)
"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
Actually it looks like they re different species of insect, Bombyx vs Antherea
I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this without causing offense. I have a sincere question. Those of you who feel so strongly about killing silk worms, how do you feel about killing pestilential beasties like fleas, ticks and termites? Do you let your dog suffer with fleas because the alternative is to kill thousands of creatures? If your house has termites do you move and let the house disintegrate rather than kill millions? Where do you draw the line and why?
Having said that I do try to catch house spiders and let them go outside and leave most outdoor bugs alone. But if a hornworm is decimating my tomates it's got to go!
Anita
See my completed projects!
http://www.picturetrail.com/achrisvet |
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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident
USA
12598 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 2:55:58 PM
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I leave the bugs alone as much as possible. I kill the fleas that are on my pets.
The distinction is easy - if it's not bothering anyone, it lives. If it hurts the ones I love (and if you saw my bald-butted kitty this summer, you'd have no doubt he was hurting) it finds a life on another celestial level. It's a protection issue - sort of like self-defense.
I don't want to kill an animal for luxury. Silk is nice, but not a neccessity. Yes, it's "just a worm/caterpillar" but IMHO, having "dominion over the earth" doesn't give us the right to cause it unneccessary pain or take advantage of it negatively. If we can reap the same benefits without hurting another being, we should do so. If we can't, we need to decide if the product is worth the loss of that being. It's a karmic thing for me....
(and no offense taken by your question - it was very valid)
"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com |
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Ninnyhammers
New Pal
6 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 3:01:31 PM
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I have purchased some Tussah silk and hemp from aurorasilk.com, and was happy with the service, as well as the yarn. It's part of a throw I made with soy silk, bamboo, organic cotton + the silk and hemp.
I was also interested in silk that is obtained without killing the caterpillars.
There have been previous threads regarding vegan and vegetarian lifestyles, and their connection to fiber
http://www.knittersreview.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID. Here is one previous thread, with links to others (I hope I did that right).
(I do know that shortly after joining KR I saw some hostility toward vegans and vegetarians, which is one reason I post so rarely. Perhaps a discussion about being vegan or vegetarian belongs in the off-topic area?)
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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident
USA
12598 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 3:03:00 PM
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I don't remember hostility in that direction!
Maybe a thread down there would be nice, if you're interested, but I think this is a perfectly valid place for this thread, since it isn't off-topic - it's certainly knitting related to wonder where fiber comes from! 
"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com |
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xmasberry
Seriously Hooked
826 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 6:50:24 PM
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has anyone used the soysilk much? i would like to know if it has some of the same properties as real silk: warmth, texture, etc.. what i really want to know about here is substitues for silk yarn and how they compare to regular silk. Also, if anyone has used a no-kill silk and can attest to how it hold up, i would be interested in hearing how they worked.
oh, another also, has anyone spun using soysilk or no-kill silk?
holly x
"do what you love, love what you do, leave the world a better place and don't pick your nose" -Jef Mallett |
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mamid
Permanent Resident
Canada
1568 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 7:00:00 PM
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spiders. flies. fleas. ants. craneflies. moskitoes. anything else creapy crawly and has more than 4 limbs, a torso and a head!
but the soysilk sounds cool. the peace coccoons cooler. |
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sarah_knits
Chatty Knitter
161 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 7:51:18 PM
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| You can buy unspun soy silk fibers. It's lovely stuff to touch; I haven't yet spun with it. I also wonder if it has the same properties as silk, other than the silky feeling. |
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spin_or_knit
Permanent Resident
USA
1203 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:13:25 AM
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quote:
If you feel that strongly, try Soy Silk, which is made from the byproducts of the soybean (tofu) industry. Personally, I am of the belief that God put all creatures on the earth for man's use, so I can't get worked up about boiling a worm to use for clothing. It may well be that's what God had in mind when creating the silkworm...who am I to question?
I agree, yank-eknitter. |
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