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Knitmama
Seriously Hooked

USA
682 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  2:49:33 PM  Show Profile Send Knitmama a Private Message
I just got the new KnitPicks catalog, and I'm appalled. The "potato chip scarf" is featured again, but this time Kelley Petkun is credited with designing it exclusively for KnitPicks. Um. I don't think so. That scarf is the one from my thread of months ago called "My Phobia-Busting Spiral Scarf" and is a word of mouth pattern from my LYS. KnitPicks is well aware of this, because they contacted me to ask if they could buy the pattern from me. I declined since it's not my pattern, but it sure as heck isn't KnitPicks' pattern, either. Anybody else think this is pretty reprehensible?!

Rachel
[IMG]http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/knit.gif[/IMG]

midnightskyfibers
Gabber Extraordinaire

579 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  2:55:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit midnightskyfibers's Homepage Send midnightskyfibers a Private Message
umm yea (though i have no idea who kelley is...that one of the owners there? i dont shop KP). Id email them and see whats up.

http://www.midnightskyfibers.com handspun and handpainted yarns, fibers, and kits.
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Knitmama
Seriously Hooked

USA
682 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  3:04:50 PM  Show Profile Send Knitmama a Private Message
YES! I just went on their website, though, and can't find an email address. Am I missing it? Does anyone see it?

ETA: Kelley is the owner of KnitPicks. Hate to see a good company with such sleazy behavior.

Rachel
[IMG]http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/knit.gif[/IMG]
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Andy
Seriously Hooked

USA
774 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  3:39:43 PM  Show Profile Send Andy a Private Message
You have documented proof, threaten to sue, or they have to pay you!
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Knitmama
Seriously Hooked

USA
682 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  3:59:29 PM  Show Profile Send Knitmama a Private Message
Well, it's not my pattern. It was a word-of-mouth pattern through my LYS. I shared it here because of that, and because I knew that I wasn't infringing on somebody's claim, kwim? I'm bothered on the principle of the thing and the degree to which it's just incredibly shabby behavior. She did NOT write that pattern, and it's just so, so poor of her to claim that she did.

Rachel
[IMG]http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/knit.gif[/IMG]
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maribelaprn
Permanent Resident

USA
2033 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  4:15:23 PM  Show Profile Send maribelaprn a Private Message
From their website:


Knit Picks and KnitPicks.com are a division of the Crafts Americana Group, a privately owned business. The company is headquartered at 13118 N.E. 4th St., Vancouver, Washington 98684. Corporate offices can be reached at (360) 260-8900 or faxed at (360) 260-8877. To speak with customer service, call 1-800-574-1323 anytime between 5am and 6pm PT Monday through Friday, 6am - 5pm Saturday.

Email is customerservice@knitpicks.com

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becka always
Permanent Resident

USA
1959 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  4:19:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit becka always's Homepage Send becka always a Private Message
The potatoe chip scarf has been on the website for a while

Addicted to the Knit
Becka Always
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Knitmama
Seriously Hooked

USA
682 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  4:38:01 PM  Show Profile Send Knitmama a Private Message
It has been on there since the previous issue. It has been on HERE for months. I first posted photos of it in January in this thread:

http://knittersreview.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27751&SearchTerms=+phobia-bustingThis thread got a fair amount of attention, and it was after it had been up for a good while that KnitPicks contacted me with an offer to buy the pattern. It is not their design.

Rachel
[IMG]http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/knit.gif[/IMG]
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Knitmama
Seriously Hooked

USA
682 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  4:47:45 PM  Show Profile Send Knitmama a Private Message
My email to KnitPicks:

Hi. My name is Rachel-----, and several months ago, I was contacted by KnitPicks with an offer to buy the pattern for what you are now calling the Potato Chip Scarf. I declined since it is not my pattern, although I had posted it (along with photos) on Knitter’s Review in January 2005. At the time that KnitPicks contacted me, I referred you to my local yarn shop, which had given me the pattern as a word-of-mouth pattern. In the next KP catalog, the pattern was published as a free pattern. I had no problem with that since its designer is not known. I do, however, have an ENORMOUS problem with your current catalog, which credits Kelley Petkun as the exclusive designer. KnitPicks is well aware that this is not Kelley’s design, as is Snow Goose Yarns in Milton, MA and as am I. Had it been Kelley’s design, there would have been no need for KnitPicks to offer to buy the pattern from me.

Claiming credit for a design not one’s own is tantamount to plagiarism; at the least, it’s a reprehensible behavior. At worst, it jeopardizes the fine reputation KnitPicks has started to create for itself. I’m not sure I can accurately convey the degree to which I am disappointed and angry about this having taken place. I have notified Knitter’s Review and my local yarn shop of this transgression and hope that KnitPicks can manage to do more honorable business in the future.


Rachel
[IMG]http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/knit.gif[/IMG]
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Two Sticks and a String
Permanent Resident

USA
1453 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  4:50:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Two Sticks and a String's Homepage Send Two Sticks and a String a Private Message
Well put!!
Let's hear the reply when you get it.

Dorene

"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away." -Unknown
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mokey
Permanent Resident

15375 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  5:03:37 PM  Show Profile Send mokey a Private Message
I'm gping to play devil's advocate here. It can be argued that Kelly Petkun has the right to claim authoring this pattern as she specified the yarn, colour, and specifications.

"An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King Jr.
www.femiknits.blog-city.com
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alliwenk
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  5:18:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit alliwenk's Homepage Send alliwenk a Private Message
This totally sucks. Can't say that I'll be shopping knitpicks until this is remedied. *sigh*

My Album and My Blog
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lakeviwa
Gabber Extraordinaire

569 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  5:29:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit lakeviwa's Homepage Send lakeviwa a Private Message
That's just not right. I loved the pattern and thank you again Rachel for posting it back in January. Just when I heard all these raves about KnitPicks and was actually going to make a purchase, I have now changed my mind. They won't be getting business from me with this type of practice.

Tess - Timeless Endings Soar Skyward
http://autumnsnowdust.blogspot.com/
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Jane
SustaYning Member

USA
4399 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  6:41:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jane's Homepage Send Jane a Private Message
Wait a minute -- how about waiting to hear what KnitPicks has to say on the subject before rushing to judgement? Witholding your business and creating a public outcry when you don't have the complete story is just plain wrong, in my opinion. I understand Rachel's point of view, and I agree that something seems rotten here, but nobody has heard another side yet.

Nothing will happen for the next few days anyway, because of the holiday, so why not wait till next week before you get out the tar and feathers?

Jane

"Only passions, great passions, can elevate the soul to great things." Denis Diderot

My album: Jane's Pages
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AgnesB
Permanent Resident

USA
1152 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  6:48:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit AgnesB's Homepage Send AgnesB a Private Message
Rachel, you should document your communication with KnitPicks, especially the initial contact they made with you concerning the buying of the pattern. Otherwise, it's hard to prove anything.

[img]http://photos3.flickr.com/6944418_c76df65d6c_m.jpg[/img]
Knitting in the Valley My Kitty Album
Everyone ought to worship God according to his own inclinations, and not to be constrained by force.
-Flavius Josephus
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maribelaprn
Permanent Resident

USA
2033 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  6:50:01 PM  Show Profile Send maribelaprn a Private Message
I'm agreeing with Mokey and am not sure what the outrage is all about. All of the free patterns in the summer catalog say "designed by Kelley Petkun exclusively for Knit Picks". It doesn't say she's the exclusive designer, nor does she claim to have originated the pattern, it just means she put together the pattern and the yarn and she's calling it her design. There are also a few very simple patterns, like the waist scarf pattern, that is simply "knit a triangle in garter stitch". Since the source is not known, and they are not violating copyright, nor are they selling these patterns, I just don't understand who has been harmed here. They did the right thing by offering to buy the rights of the pattern from you, but you told them that it was word-of-mouth, thus indicating the pattern is in the public domain and hot subject to copyright. So, she took the pattern and her yarn and is calling it her design that she did for her company.

I don't believe Kelley came up with original patterns here, nor do I think she's claiming to, but she did put together patterns that appears to be in the public domain and her yarns. I just don't understand why people are so appalled and outraged about this.


Don't confuse knowledge with wisdom. With one you make a living, with the other you make a life.
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azknitter
Honorary Angel

5539 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  7:08:23 PM  Show Profile Send azknitter a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jcc28

Wait a minute -- how about waiting to hear what KnitPicks has to say on the subject before rushing to judgement? Witholding your business and creating a public outcry when you don't have the complete story is just plain wrong, in my opinion. I understand Rachel's point of view, and I agree that something seems rotten here, but nobody has heard another side yet.

Nothing will happen for the next few days anyway, because of the holiday, so why not wait till next week before you get out the tar and feathers?

Jane

"Only passions, great passions, can elevate the soul to great things." Denis Diderot

My album: Jane's Pages



I agree....I'd like to know KP's side of the story before anyone decides to question their good reputation.

Trish
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Renee77
Chatty Knitter

261 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  7:24:35 PM  Show Profile Send Renee77 a Private Message
When I got the latest catalog, I was surprised at the number of times the phrase 'designed by Kelley Petkun exclusively for Knitpicks' was peppered throughout the pages. Then when I looked at the actual designs, I was like - "So What. Look how simple they are."

If she wants to post a free pattern on the website for the simple shawl and sleeveless tank, that's fine with me. But simple shawls and sleeveless tanks have been around for ages; there's nothing exlusive, or even inventive about these patterns in the latest catalog. We're not talking Debbie Bliss or Veronik Avery or Nora Gaughan here.

As for the potato chip pattern - if Knitpicks asked for permission to use it, then it seems to me that they understood there was some authorship involved with this design, that it wasn't some simple pattern that's been floating around the knitting world for years, like, say, a sleeveless tank. And from what I understand, even if a pattern is free, this does not mean that someone else can claim that they designed it. Wendy Johnson on Wendyknits.net does post free patterns. She is not giving permission to others to claim her designs as their own.

I've had it - I doubt I'll be buying from Knitpicks again. I've had some other issues with their marketing practices, which I won't mix up with this thread, but this is the last straw.
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Spinnerella
Permanent Resident

1040 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  8:09:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Spinnerella's Homepage Send Spinnerella a Private Message
Legally, the minute you post a pattern on the internet, unless you specify that you own a copyright, it's out there. For anyone. HGTV actually says in very small print that anyone posting any information, original patterns, etc, on their website, actually gives ownership of that information to HGTV. It gets more complicated. I've seen similar patterns in a lot of places....if it's just a particular technique that creates that particular effect, I don't think it can be copyrighted. The pattern may not be exactly what you posted, for that matter. KP may have found a similar pattern somewhere else. I think it unlikely that a company in business as long as they've been would risk a lawsuit over copyright infringement. I'd like to hear what they say, too.

Marcia
www.spinnerellasattic.typepad.com
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becka always
Permanent Resident

USA
1959 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  8:27:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit becka always's Homepage Send becka always a Private Message
If you look throughout both the catalog and website you will also see designs by other designers, designed for KnitPicks. On the home page there is a section asking for new designs and designers, specifying that they have not been copyrighted (those that you submit). So, Kelly is not the only one in the catalog or on the site with her name by a design, other than books, I mean. This could very well be a mistake and/or have a very logical explanation. I've been dealing with KnitPicks for a few months now and have had wonderful experiences each and every time & will continue to do business with them.

Addicted to the Knit
Becka Always
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mokey
Permanent Resident

15375 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2005 :  11:08:11 PM  Show Profile Send mokey a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Renee77
When I got the latest catalog, I was surprised at the number of times the phrase 'designed by Kelley Petkun exclusively for Knitpicks' was peppered throughout the pages. Then when I looked at the actual designs, I was like - "So What. Look how simple they are."


Yes. So what. This is no different than what Mary Maxim has been doing for decades - package up some balls of yarn with a pattern "exclusive to Mary Maxim" when it's just Feather & Fan. It's their "exclusive" because they packaged it in that fashion.

quote:
Originally posted by Renee77
"if Knitpicks asked for permission to use it, then it seems to me that they understood there was some authorship involved with this design,"


Yes, they understood, as any human being would, that someone had to have originally come up with it. However, since they learned it was public domain, they came up with a way to tie it into their product.

I have never ordered from the company, never been to the web site until reading this thread. My only opinion on the matter comes from the one sided version I have seen here, and so far I do not see anything wrong. You were asked about the pattern, said it was not yours.

"An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King Jr.
www.femiknits.blog-city.com
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