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Chequamegon
Chatty Knitter

231 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  12:34:40 AM  Show Profile Send Chequamegon a Private Message
Has anyone seen this book? I looked at the pages on Knitpicks and it looked fairly interesting. What really caught my eye was that it was by Martin Storey of Rowan and Jaeger fame. . . one of my favorite designers.

gibsongirl
Seriously Hooked

965 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  3:52:07 PM  Show Profile Send gibsongirl a Private Message
What do they mean by "real women"? Are there more sizing options aside from just slim, slimmer, and stick (which seems to be the sizing scheme in certain books/magazines these days)?

-gibsongirl
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Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  5:31:11 PM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
They mean patterns sized, and more importantly proportioned, for bigger women. The patterns are sized from a 36" to a 46" bust. Many of them have some sort of optional waist shaping, to prevent the dreaded "box" look.

There are three sections...Cool Colours, Natural Colours and Rich Colours. There are 35 different patterns, some with options for each pattern so you get a fair bit for your money. The designs are all in Jaeger and Rowan yarns, so not difficult to find. Of course being a UK book the patterns are written, not charted, but if you`re used to Martin Storey patterns anyway this won`t be a problem.

A lot of the patterns are classic shapes with modern yarns...ie not boring old plain sweaters but a lot of good detailings that can be modified to suit tastes. There are a few scarves and other accessories but mostly it contains sweaters, jackets and cardigans, with one three-quarter length coat (Which I intend to knit one day.) There are evening as well as daytime patterns.

I think it`s great value for money. (It`s 14.99 here) It`s the kind of book which will not date quickly, and it makes even the larger sized models ...who are, to be fair, nearer the 38" rather than the 46" mark...look very stylish. Others might think it`s not trendy or cutting edge enough, but it`s like the section you always used to get in Rowan magazines that they showed you the sophisticated designs for grown-ups rather than the trendy perfect early twenty-somethings.

I like it, I`m glad I bought it. If you`re a bigger size than Rowan usually caters for then it`s well worth a very much closer look.



Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
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lemons
Permanent Resident

1692 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  5:46:40 PM  Show Profile Send lemons a Private Message
Much discussion today on this topic over at ampleknitters.com and the idea that it's suggested for women of size and turns out to be less than advertised. A 46" bust isn't much larger than average in this day when most women are at or more than an American size 14. (And remember that 14 is considerably larger than it was a few decades, too.) Oh, well.

lemons of missouri
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Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  6:08:54 PM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
Well, most Rowan based pattern books have patterns that go up to a 38" 0r 40" bust. I`ve never been able to knit a Rowan pattern up straight from the magazine without sizing it up. So an extra three sizes more to play with is nice.

I appreciate your point about average sizes, but of course it`s not just a question of adding inches to size up patterns is it? The proportions have to be adjusted too. Also women come in different shapes....hour glass, apple, pear, tall, short. The differences in shapes are more important to sizing in big sizes...you don`t loose your basic shape just because you`re big. I would imaginse that after a certain point you`re going to have to size up to accomodate the different body shapes, and have books called "Ample Knits for Apples" etc.

Incidentally, an American size 14 is a UK size 18, for these who don`t know. I have no idea why this should be so, but I`m really looking forwards to clothes shopping in the USA and being a 14 again!

Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
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mew
Chatty Knitter

Canada
227 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  6:14:21 PM  Show Profile Send mew a Private Message
I somehow find the book title disturbing.

So becuse I'm 5'2, have a bust measurement of 32.5", I am no longer a "real woman"?

Right.
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Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  03:21:41 AM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by mew

I somehow find the book title disturbing.

So becuse I'm 5'2, have a bust measurement of 32.5", I am no longer a "real woman"?

Right.



I think it`s a subtle (very English) aside to the ongoing media pressure which implies that only girls and women that look like models and pop stars (ie tall and clinically underweight) are "real" women!

To be called a "Real Woman" over here (UK) just implies you`re gorgeous the way you are, rather than some media fantasy of what a woman should be. it is in fact a compliment, and not really size related. Maybe the title is just a casualty of the linguistic divide that unites our nations?

Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
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CatherineM
Permanent Resident

USA
3363 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  05:00:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit CatherineM's Homepage Send CatherineM a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by mew

I somehow find the book title disturbing.

So becuse I'm 5'2, have a bust measurement of 32.5", I am no longer a "real woman"?

Right.



I was put off by the title too, I think we could do without using our body type to define "real" women, but after hearing the description here I want to check it out. My daughter is 5'9" broad-shouldered and curvy, and patterns from Debbie Bliss, et al. are usually way too skimpy in length as well as in the bust. Has anyone noticed if these patterns are a bit longer as well as fuller in the bust? Because that's MY pet peeve - these short, boxy things wouldn't fit a tall skinny model either, I don't know WHO they're designing for anymore. And if I have to start calculating additional inches for the length, adjusting the sleeves, etc., I'll use Sweater Wizard and forgo the patterns entirely.

Besides, I am amused by a pattern book where I'd wear the smallest size!



Catherine
http://www.yorkiedog.blogspot.com
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Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  06:44:24 AM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by CatherineM

[quote]Originally posted by mew

Has anyone noticed if these patterns are a bit longer as well as fuller in the bust?



I`m 5`4" so hadn`t really taken much notice of the lengths. But I had a quick flip through, and as an example there is a semi-fitted classic cardigan shape with a length range of 24 3/4 inches to 26 3/4 inches across the 36" to 46" bust sizes. Most of the other standard designs are about these lengths too, but there is one boxy jacket and a couple of longer cardigans as well.

Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
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RobA
Permanent Resident

2373 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  08:50:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit RobA's Homepage Send RobA a Private Message
I just took a look at this book at my LYS, because Martin Storey is listed as one of the designers, and I like many of his designs for Jaeger. But almost all of the sweaters used vast expanses of stockinette. Fortunately I am finding more and more patterns that go larger than 38 or 40".

Rob http://roberta.typepad.com/robknits/
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konababy
Warming Up

75 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  10:29:50 AM  Show Profile Send konababy a Private Message
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 6:14:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I somehow find the book title disturbing.

So becuse I'm 5'2, have a bust measurement of 32.5", I am no longer a "real woman"?

Right.

Me too! I am 5'1, and I have a bust measurement of 34", and I have a small waist, I am in good shape. I work out to stay in good shape, AND to stay healthy! I know many women at my gym that stay in good shape because they want to look good AND take care of their health. I am tired of hearing that "real women" are 'bigger'.
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Karknit
Seriously Hooked

USA
711 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  5:13:29 PM  Show Profile Send Karknit a Private Message
I would rather be a real woman than a trendy chick anyday.
Excuse me, my age is showing again.


karknit

My diet incentive, to knit smaller sweaters.
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cableready
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
385 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  07:31:01 AM  Show Profile Send cableready a Private Message
"Real Women" come in all sizes.
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Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  10:10:43 AM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
It`s still a nice book with some lovely classic patterns in a decent range of sizes. But I did read in a Rowan mag after the book was launched that they had been swamped with complaints that the sizing did not go small enough.

Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
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Jane
SustaYning Member

USA
4368 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  11:01:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jane's Homepage Send Jane a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by cableready

"Real Women" come in all sizes.



Yes, we do! For too long those of us who aren't model-skinny or the media's idea of perfect have been seen as less than real women. There's nothing being said here against small sizes, just that it's about time that "average" and "normal" and "real" included everyone!

Jane

Blog: Not Plain Jane
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spindyerella
Seriously Hooked

601 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2005 :  1:38:36 PM  Show Profile Send spindyerella a Private Message
I'm not at all put off by the title, because I do consider my size and shape to be real--I'm not stick thin by any means!

I'd marked this on my Knitpicks wish list, but it seems they no longer have it. Does anyone know of a US source for the book?
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booglass
Permanent Resident

Costa Rica
1987 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2005 :  9:22:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit booglass's Homepage Send booglass a Private Message
I think it is nice to see a book that may have alternatives for newer curvier knitters who find the majority of patterns to need tinkering to fit. I am a size 12-14 who is pretty busty and find many patterns simply don't fit properly across the chest. I am going to have to add short rows. Don't get me started on the MudFlap Girl Tank debacle of this spring.

And FYI although I am no size 8 or even 10, I too go the gym regularly and eat well because I want to be healthy and feel good about myself. I don't assume I am a real women b/c I am curvier; I know I am real women b/c I can accept myself as I am and others as they are. I hope the title of a knitting book doesn't lead other women to forget that. CableReady is 100% real women do come in all sizes.

bonnie

Check out my blog:
http://www.booglass.typepad.com
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Chequamegon
Chatty Knitter

231 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2005 :  4:17:32 PM  Show Profile Send Chequamegon a Private Message
When I posted the topic I wasn't even paying attention to the potential insult in the book's title . .. then when I went to look for it at Knitpicks (it mysteriously disappeared) I googled the title and only found gripes about the book and not where to buy it. It seems strange for a title to bar people from enjoying what is inside.
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twiggyann
Gabber Extraordinaire

427 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2005 :  4:29:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit twiggyann's Homepage Send twiggyann a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jcc28

quote:
Originally posted by cableready

"Real Women" come in all sizes.



There's nothing being said here against small sizes, just that it's about time that "average" and "normal" and "real" included everyone!

Jane




But it doesn't include everyone. From what I've gathered from this conversation, nothing in it would fit me.

For what it's worth, being very small is just as troublesome when shopping for clothes as it is being large. When I shop for suits for work, I have to have the store call me when they get something in that's my size. They get one to two suits (that's the total) in size 4 in a shipment; very very seldom is there a 2, and you can forget about those sizes in Petite. If I were a size 10 - 22 I'd have racks and racks to choose from.

Lesley

Twig's Knitting Blog
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CatherineM
Permanent Resident

USA
3363 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2005 :  4:38:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit CatherineM's Homepage Send CatherineM a Private Message
I think there are more amusing ways to describe a full figure - zaftig, lavish, curvaceous - "real" does have that weird implied flipside - if a full figure is described as "real" does that make a slim body UN-real? I've seen it used in that way, as if any woman who is naturally thin or works to stay that way is somehow caving to societal pressure to be thin - the whole "fat is a feminist issue" thing. ("Real women" don't do that.)

Like you, I have to worry about my weight and I exercise and watch my diet - not enough lately, I'm afraid - because I have a strong paternal family history of heart disease and I'm pushing toward 50 and I need to be REAL about that. And if I can ever get my butt back into size 8 jeans, that'll be a fringe benefit, not the primary reason, but I'll be happy with that, too! And small sweaters are cheaper and faster to make, so I might actually finish more of them. Maybe.

But a more important question: Is this book real? I saw it on the KnitPicks site and then it vanished, and it is listed as not available yet on Barnes & Noble. I'd like to look at the patterns before purchasing but if it's really Rowan styles sized up a bit, and hopefully longer, my tall and built like Sophia Loren daughter might finally find sweaters that fit her without being too short and too boxy.

Catherine
http://www.yorkiedog.blogspot.com
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Yarn Delirious
Seriously Hooked

USA
777 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2005 :  7:43:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yarn Delirious's Homepage Send Yarn Delirious a Private Message
When I saw the title of the book, it made me think of the 2002 independent movie about a girl coming of age, Real Women Have Curves. This young actress was not real thin, was quite curvy.

Yarn Delirious blog
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