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 Wool/yarn comes apart while spinning.
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  09:06:43 AM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
Actually, as I'm spinning and the yarn is wound on the spool, sometimes it just comes apart. Am I trying to make it too thin? Also, how do I get it to wind on the spool correctly? It starts getting tangled and really tight, then breaks.



I'm using a Lendrum and Corriedale (sp?) wool. Am I not moving the little yarn guide properly? Is there a set interval of time I should move it in one direction or the other? Is there a secret to this? It is very frustrating to have the yarn break all the time, or get tangled on the spool.




Andy
Seriously Hooked

USA
774 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  10:13:55 AM  Show Profile Send Andy a Private Message
You might check the roving to be sure it isn't full of short bits called noils or second cuts, but I suspect it is the amount of twist you are learning how to control. You feed in a particular amount into the oriface per so many treadles to control twist. You want to have a reasonable angle of twist on the finished yarn, maybe 20degrees angle. To get that, a particular thickness of yarn requires more twists for thinner yarn and less for thicker yarn. Pull off a bit of what you just made and examine it. See how many twists you have per inch and then let it flip together to make itself into a plyed yarn. Does that one look reasonably soft, etc? If not it can help you decide whether you need more or less twist. Hang in there!

Give Coleridge credit for saying that people most often err in what they condemn and are nearest the truth in what they allow.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/shuvani11/
http://spinavardo.blogspot.com/
Andy-wommon
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  10:28:09 AM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
"You feed in a particular amount into the oriface per so many treadles to control twist."

So, I'm supposed to be counting the treadles per amount fed through? You mean, I have to THINK??? ;)

Okay. I'm still learning. I'll try that tonight. I'm still trying to figure out the tension, etc. In other words, I'm making it up as I go along. :(

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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident

USA
12598 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  10:35:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit RoseByAny's Homepage Send RoseByAny a Private Message
Not neccessarily too thin, but not enough twist. The finer the yarn, generally the more twist you need, since there's less fiber there to hold together - if there's a lot of fiber in the yarn, the strands hold onto each other and you don't need as much twist (I picture all these little individual fibers chanting "United we stand, divided we fall" and singing "We Shall Overcome," "Kum By Yah," and "Blowin' In the Wind" but maybe that's just me)

When you want more twist, you want the wheel to pull the fiber in SLOWER - so that it twists more before it goes onto the bobbin. Loosen the tension just a little and see if that helps.

"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  10:41:09 AM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
"Loosen the tension just a little and see if that helps."

Hey RoseByAny, I'll try that, too. THANKS!

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Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  11:20:38 AM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
I don`t count anything. I just look at it, let a bit twist back on itself every so often to see if I`m being consistant and keep a steady rythym going between my hands and feet once it`s started to look the way I want it. I`m an instinctive spinner, not an analytical one, which is funny because I`m actually trained as a research scientist, lol.

I mean, when you`re at spinning group you`re talking to the other spinners while you spin, so you`ve no time to count anything! You`ve got to be able to do it by feel as well.

When you`re learning and getting to know your wheel, play with it to find out what effects any adjustment has on the spinning. Don`t worry about getting the perfect yarn first time because you won`t, belive me. Learn your wheel till you feel comfortable with it. Relax. Try to feel with your hands and develop a rythym. At first it`s like patting your head, rubbing your tummy and tapping your toes at the same time, but once you "get" it, you`ll be fine.

Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  11:24:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
Counting isn't necessary, unless you want to. The thing to remember is that YOU decide when the yarn goes onto the bobbin, not the wheel. I hold my yarn out for several treadles to add even more twist before I let it wind onto the bobbin, because I tend to undertwist otherwise. Don't let the wheel pull the yarn out of your hands before it's ready - you should be able to comfortably hold a length of spun yarn at arm's length WHILE STILL TREADLING without it being yanked onto the bobbin. If not, your brake's to tight.

Lissa

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act. -- George Orwell


Oh, and I now have a blog:http://knittnlissa.typepad.com/knittnlissa/
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petiteflower
Chatty Knitter

USA
297 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  5:13:15 PM  Show Profile Send petiteflower a Private Message
If you are wanting to produce a yarn that has a consistant amount of twist throughout, then it will behoove you, as a beginner, to be putting attention into how much yarn you are feeding in for how many treadles. Keep it consistant. You WILL have to THINK about it for awhile, but after you get those new grooves set up in your brain tissue you will do it all like falling off a log. When you are a VERY FRESH beginner this consistancy doesn't need to be your primary focus, but as soon as you get the hang of spinning on a wheel you should hone what you are doing. Then, once you are producing the results you always knew in your heart you were capable of, you can be more on automatic pilot and enjoy a conversation, or listen to the radio, or watch TV, or just catch up on your thinking, that is your non-spinning thinking, whilst you are merrily working your hands, treadling with your feet, and feasting your eyes on the pretty fibers passing by.

I very typically will feed in a short amount of yarn at each and every treadle because I am almost always using the short-draw method and spinning a fairly fine single and using a fairly high ratio. I draft a consistant thickness and length of fibers with every treadle, and feed in with every treadle. Sometimes I may treadle twice for every draw-and-feed and this will be when I am spinning at a lower ratio and making a thicker yarn. I also find myself making 2 or 3 treadles for every draft-and-feed when I am spinning a very long-stapled fiber. If you are spinning with a long draw or a modified long draw, you should be trying to produce the same length of yarn for every X number of treadles before you feed the yarn in. This just makes sense right? I watch people spin at my local fiber fest (which is about the only time I ever see other people spin) and I see some people who seem to have no rhyme or reason to how much yarn they are producing with each treadle, and their yarn shows this lack of attention. I think it is a big big thing to train yourself to get this right early on in your spinning life.
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lella
Permanent Resident

9712 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  8:34:49 PM  Show Profile Send lella a Private Message
These things have a brake? Just joking. I will look for it soon.

Val, I remember what you told me about getting used to the wheel and passed it on to my daughter. I think it helped her a lot to just relax at her wheel. Thanks.

Petiteflower, I've also copied out your post and will send it to my DD. We are both new wheel spinners but she has a few months on me. My wheel part came today and is stained and ready to assemble with the wheel, so I had to wait.

Well, heck, I will just copy the whole thread.

lella[img]http://smilies.sofrayt.com/^/9971/omelet.gif[/img]

http://zippiknits.blogspot.com
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2005 :  7:11:53 PM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
ARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH.

I can NOT spin this dang wool even NOW without it breaking. I've adjusted the tension, I've predrafted, I've counted the treadles per feed, I've concentrated, I've not concentrated, I've said bad words. None of it seems to help me. I've, in the past few months, spun 3 skeins of other yarn and only had this issue a few times. I can't seem to spin this stuff for more than about 10 minutes before it breaks again on the bobbin or somewhere in the oriface. There IS a rough spot on the metal oriface that I'd like to blame it on, but I'm not sure.

I've got so MUCH fibre to spin and I'm so frustrated.

How thick/thin is the single supposed to be? It's getting to look like sewing thread because it is so thin. Am I letting it get too thin?



[:((]
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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident

USA
12598 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2005 :  7:19:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit RoseByAny's Homepage Send RoseByAny a Private Message
Take a deep breath.

The single is supposed to be exactly as thin as you want it to be. There is no "too thin" if you're spinning it properly (there is too thick, but that's another story)

Try another fiber. Are you breaking everything or just that fiber? Has that little rough spot always been there? Can you do anything to get rid of it?

What fiber is it that's giving you trouble - where did you get it, how was it prepared? It's possible there is a flaw in the fiber - heck, the sheep could have been sick and have brittle wool! It happens - it's rare to buy something like that, but it certainly does happen.

I would switch to another fiber for a while to see if that solves the issue. If it does, it's that specific fiber (or at least your reaction to it) that's giving you trouble.

And remember to take deep breaths - tension is not a good thing in spinning!!!

I wish I could come over and help right now, cuz it's hard to tell what's going on using words when something is so three dimensional and tactile. But hang in there.

You'll get it. Honest (heck, it's easier than playing the flute!)

"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2005 :  7:35:11 PM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
RoseByAny, I just wrote out a big long WHINE response and it didn't post because I didn't hold my mouth right.

ANYWAY.

If I adjust which "gear" the drive band is on, will that increase the twist? I'm having issues with it feeding into the oriface/winding on the bobbin/having enough twist. I've been adjusting the tension, but it isn't really helping beyond how fast it winds on the bobbin.

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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident

USA
12598 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2005 :  7:52:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit RoseByAny's Homepage Send RoseByAny a Private Message
If you put the band on a smaller whorl the flyer will move faster... so yes, more twist.

Check the routes of the single - I sometimes have trouble when the single flips around the guide, and (especially if the single is fine and hard to see) you can't really see that it's wrapped around the guide hook. When that happens it just plain stops pulling in. See if that's an issue.

I'll keep thinking....

Keep breathing.

We'll get you going!

"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2005 :  7:56:00 PM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by RoseByAny



Check the routes of the single - I sometimes have trouble when the single flips around the guide, and (especially if the single is fine and hard to see) you can't really see that it's wrapped around the guide hook. When that happens it just plain stops pulling in. See if that's an issue.





Yes, I've had that happen and I watch for it. However, that isn't the case at this moment. I'll try moving the drive band.......


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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident

USA
12598 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2005 :  8:06:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit RoseByAny's Homepage Send RoseByAny a Private Message
Okay, what else is happening when it breaks? Where does it break - on your side of the orifice, after passing through the orifice but before winding on the bobbin? Is it pulling the yarn out of your hands and snapping? Do you feel like it's running away with you?

If it keeps breaking when you try a higher speed, try a lower one and spin slowly...

Still thinking... (I'm not allowed to spin, I'm supposed to be working on a stocking, but I'm checking every two rows to see if I can come up with anything else, otherwise I'd be up all night fiddling with my wheel to see if I could get yarn to break...)

"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2005 :  07:38:08 AM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
The yarn breaks near the bobbin, as it is winding. Or, that is where it appears to break. Almost as if the single isn't strong enough to be put onto the bobbin.
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SpinaYarn
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2005 :  10:01:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit SpinaYarn's Homepage Send SpinaYarn a Private Message
It sounds like Rose is giving you GREAT input (YEAH Rose!!)

Too bad that you are still having a problem..
hang in there- spinning is about process not production! If you wanted perfect production yarn, you could always buy Red Heart [:00]

Remember that we've all been there, and we've all conquered the dilemma.. You will too.

Meanwhile, it sounds like you should loosen your tension and drop down to an even smaller ratio.. in other words, not enough twist.

One other thing that I didn't read yet in this thread, is to have you really take a look at the roving you are spinning - are there "breaks" in it? Was this a home-prepared roving? or commercial? Because it is also very possible that the fleece was bad, and that the animal had an illness of sorts that causes a "break" in the fiber at a certain length... [**]
If this is the case, it won't matter what you do, the completed yarn will have a weak spot in it and break or wear. yuck.
Maybe its not your spinning skills at all?

knit with joy-
Teyani

www.http://intrepidfiberwizard.blogspot.com/
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2005 :  11:56:27 AM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
Teyani, I'm do not know the history of the fibre. I bought it from a spinner at a Christmas Fair. I truly think the fibre is fine and that my skill as a spinner is in question. The fibre feels/looks the same as other corriedale I've had. The only difference is that this one is dyed a fairly bright green. The other corriedale was natural. Could the dye have weakend the fibers?

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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident

USA
12598 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2005 :  12:04:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit RoseByAny's Homepage Send RoseByAny a Private Message
As I said above when I raised this point, the sheep could have been sick or something like that. It's rare to get fiber like that, but it is important to remember that sheep are people too. They are living, breathing things, and stresses in their lives affects their hair just like it affects yours.

The last time I had this happen (I actually think it was corriedale too, but this is not characteristic of all corriedale) I had to let the tension out to what felt like an absurd degree.

Try taking ALL of the tension off, then tightening it by less than an eighth of a twist each time until you find it.

Are you spinning roving or top? Top has a right end and a wrong end (roving does not) and while I've never heard of that affecting breakage - only drafting - it can't hurt to take that into account.

"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
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flutebabe
Seriously Hooked

968 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2005 :  12:09:23 PM  Show Profile Send flutebabe a Private Message
"Are you spinning roving or top? Top has a right end and a wrong end (roving does not) and while I've never heard of that affecting breakage - only drafting - it can't hurt to take that into account."

I don't know. :( It came in a thick strand, wound into a ball. I'm trying to keep the "grain" in the same direction. Not the right term, but... I'm sure it is me. The sheep might have needed to be on beta blockers, but I really think my skills are at fault.

I'll play with the tension again tonight.

Thanks, RoseByAny. :)


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RoseByAny
Permanent Resident

USA
12598 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2005 :  12:12:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit RoseByAny's Homepage Send RoseByAny a Private Message
Roving is jumbled fibers all pointing in different directions (which is why there's no right end) and to me looks a lot airier. Top is smooth and all the fibers point in the same direction.

Hang in there. I'll pull out my wheel tonight and see if I can figure this out with you. If it takes a phone call, we'll get you fixed!!!

"Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
http://RoseByAny.BlogSpot.Com
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