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 The Curse of the Love Sweater?
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susiknits
Permanent Resident

USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2006 :  08:10:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit susiknits's Homepage  Send susiknits a Yahoo! Message Send susiknits a Private Message
Browsing the "Introduce Yourself" section, I found this *very interesting* statement from llin, who has three young adult sons:

"Oddly enough, young males are not fond of knitted things with the exception of bucket hats and socks which must be supplied in copious quantities. Sweaters are too girly"

Is is remotely possible, then, that this is the reason it's calld the curse of the love sweater? Does the giver of the sweater unintentionally assign a characterization (and I'm not saying girlie is the ultimate accusation here) that the giftee can't handle? Commitment-phobia aside, could this be part of the problem?

Hmmmmm!

-- susi

--That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Chemcats
Permanent Resident

3337 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  04:08:55 AM  Show Profile Send Chemcats a Private Message
I think you may be onto something Susi! I guess they don't want to appear to "stand out" or to look well attended to/nurtured/a womans hand....

men..........LOL

Meribeth
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Lanea
Permanent Resident

USA
5190 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  05:24:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Lanea's Homepage Send Lanea a Private Message
I think a lot of non-knitters also view knitting as something closely connected to pregnancy and nesting. I say that because I know I've had people assume that I must be pregnant or nesting because I knit, and several folks here have reported hearing similar things.

I know that if I were a guy in college or high school and I felt pressured to become a father or a husband, I would probably freak out. I'm not saying it's ok to make those assumptions, but not everyone has good communication skills.

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llinn
honorary angel

USA
1650 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  2:40:46 PM  Show Profile Send llinn a Private Message
No, no, no girls. Let me explain the greatest secret of life to you.

Testosterone is poisonous and they're all goofy.

Remember that "m old, I survived 2 younger brothers, a husband for 36 years so far and 3 I gave birth to, as well as another 3 or 5 they brought home for me to feed.
They're just not right and it's definitely linked to the manufacture of testosterone, but it's not the only factor. In general all males are insane. Proof positive--thjey think hitting each other and solid objects is fun.
Now women like to do wild stuff, but we studiously avoid getting hurt. Males regard getting hurt as a sport. Maybe they have no pain nerves except in their testicles.
Now they are sweet little things when they first show up. Cute babies, darling little tiny boys but (whoa, nelly) when they hit about 8 or 9 something terrible happens.
First they decide they have no mother. It becomes of critical importance that NO ONE EVER SEE A MALE CHILD SPEAK TO HIS MOTHER. Nor can she speak to his friends. This would lead inevitably to the fate they fear most.
Instant Emasculation: or IE syndrome. Should this happen their beach will spontaneously invert-creating a vagina and turning them into a girl whilst their testicles wither and puff away as dust--all in the space of less than 3 seconds.
Sure causes of IE--saying goodbye to mother in front of friends. By the time they reach puberty--carrying foreign objects (like lunch or books) in their hands (might look like a purse). Everything must be stowed in pockets or a bookbag which must be drug on the floor until it looks appropriately not-pursish. Wearing any article of clothing OR ANY COLOR that might possibly remind someone somewhere of something feminine. (The only safe colors are black, poopy browns, denim blue and dull, dead grass green (it's a real color)). Girls wear sweaters--see?
It's not about nesting or commitment--it's about IE.
Don't believe me, make the plainest, fug ugliest color sweater you can imagine for your sweetie. I don't know if he'll run away from you or not, but I guarantee he'll wear it.
Lin
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abt1950
Permanent Resident

3019 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  3:03:40 PM  Show Profile Send abt1950 a Private Message
Describes my son to a T. Last time he wore something I knit for him was when he was 2 and I could still physically dress him.

My second to the last attempt was a really nice blue gansey when he was in middle school. He chose the yarn & the pattern, so I thought it was ok. He was just humoring me so we could get out of the yarn store.

Then there was the Elisabeth Lavold hat with the neat cabling that I knit for Hannukah two years back. I haven't seen it since, although he swears he hasn't thrown it out. After all, even if it's dorky, I made it for him.

If his next girlriend knits, I'll warn her about The Curse of the Love Sweater.

Anne

Knit long and prosper
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Dances with Needles
Chatty Knitter

197 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  3:20:17 PM  Show Profile Send Dances with Needles a Private Message
Now explain this: My older son knits. He knit his girlfriend a sweater. She dumped him.

DWN
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kadiddly
Permanent Resident

USA
3076 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  5:41:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit kadiddly's Homepage  Send kadiddly a Yahoo! Message Send kadiddly a Private Message
One of my (male) friends staunchly lives by the motto that the Y chromosome makes you stupid, and the X makes you crazy. Therefore, logically, men are crazy and stupid and women are just doubly crazy.

I'd flip for any guy who knit me a sweater, but that's just me. I probably wouldn't knit anyone but myself a sweater, though, as I am always terrified of sizing!

"Alright everyone, back to your knitting..."
- Fred or George Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (movie)
Backstage Stitches
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llinn
honorary angel

USA
1650 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  7:44:49 PM  Show Profile Send llinn a Private Message
I hadn't heard the crazy stupid gene theory. ine is that testosterone shuts down neural activity.

Net reults would be pretty much the same-- crazy and not too bright for boys, but girls are always operating from a position of intent. When a girl hits anyone she's already PO'd and WANTS to PO the other party. Women tend to embody the principle of malicious intent.
I said we were different. I never said we were nicer than boys.
I am very much afraid, Dances, that if your dear boy knit for his girlfriend and she ran it was exactly because she saw commitment coming and decided no way no how not with this guy.
Look at it this way, you know perfectly well she wasn't near good enough for your son anyhow.
When mine bring this pretty, useless brain-dead, superficial giggle twits home I smile pretty, make polite noises then hit my head on the brick walls after they leave until the urge to laugh goes away.
Since my father and grandfathers had a similar problem with my husband, I can hear the faint far off laughter of amused forebears in the distance. Yah, see if I put any flowers on their graves now.
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Chemcats
Permanent Resident

3337 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  03:08:36 AM  Show Profile Send Chemcats a Private Message
Lin, that was one of the funniest analysis I have ever read! Although I have not had children, I have had the lucky experirence of working with 95% men most of my life and I can testify that your theory proved out! Especially IE. They never grow out of it....

Luckily I met a guy who damaged himself enough, that he understands Peaceful, Quit, Comfort. I guess breaking his pelvis in the Peace Corps finally got through the testosterone haze.

Meribeth
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Dances with Needles
Chatty Knitter

197 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  09:32:33 AM  Show Profile Send Dances with Needles a Private Message
the girl was a raging 17year old alcoholic, who took special joy out of tormenting the younger sibling, who hated her guts. I was quietly thrilled when she took off. the present girlfrind is a grown woman at 21, and talks and acts like a rational being. I love your description of brain dead giggleheads. The younger one has an off again on again hangout with one who is unbeleivably clueless. I smile and go outside where no one can hear the laughter. Was I ever that stupid? I don't know but the guys I brought home would probably confirm it.

DWN
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susiknits
Permanent Resident

USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  10:59:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit susiknits's Homepage  Send susiknits a Yahoo! Message Send susiknits a Private Message
Okay, all of this said, how do we get rid of the BB (bad boyfriend) that DD is hooked up with? It's serious and they've moved in together, IN SPITE of his continued antisocial behavior ("he's shy") and temper ("I didn't think he should write that nasty letter to the landlord, but he wouldn't listen").
If I knit ANYTHING, he's going to take it as a sign of familial acceptance! If SHE makes anything, it's going to be a sign of devotion. We've been putting the chill on for three years, and she thinks he's the berries and that eventually we will come around.

To which DH replies with bitter and maniacal laughter (just not in her presence).

Honestly, the ones you want to keep run, and the ones you wish would drop off the face of the earth stick around like a bad case of the flu.

-- susi

--That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
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llinn
honorary angel

USA
1650 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  11:27:46 AM  Show Profile Send llinn a Private Message
UUH-oh, Now you're going to make me channel the Ultimate B&^%% Machiavelli, my grandmother. Grandmother was raised to be a lady. For 60 years she and my great aunt, her SIL HATED each other and never spoke an unkind word.
Grandmother would look at you, raise one eyebrow delicately, tilt her head subtly and ask "How is, dear Alice" (who lived 250 FEET away).
Sus, what you must now do is rent a medium and get in touch with my grandmother. ,,,no no,no.. the evil is gone.
Learn from the deadly politeness of yesteryear. NEVER outright criticize him. ALWAYS maintain a subtly sweet-,morphing to saccharine overload the worse he gets--demeanor. When he writes a nasty letter to the landlord and your daughter remarks on it, you then raise one eyebrow, tilt your little head and go "Oh, dear, I hope he didn't get in trouble" So while saying all nice things you convey the message that you devoutly hope he will grow fungus and molder away. You also have to bring in the maternal guilt thing--hours of labor, years of worry, work and suffering to raise her and give her the potential for a good life, while meantime she's wasting herself on a scumbag.
Or you could try telling her the truth. You think he's an idiot and she needs to date higher up the food chain. (I'm only polite while they're here--after they're gone I do tell the boys the truth)
Lin
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susiknits
Permanent Resident

USA
1060 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  2:34:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit susiknits's Homepage  Send susiknits a Yahoo! Message Send susiknits a Private Message
Well, what I am doing right now is keeping my big fat mouth shut in her presence. The more I criticize the more she clings. Sort of like saving a drowning dog from the swollen river, even though you know it's a vicious brute and knowing it's gonnna bite your arm off once it's on dry land.

Truth doesn't work. Chill doesn't work. We're just waiting.


-- susi

--That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
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Dances with Needles
Chatty Knitter

197 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  6:50:50 PM  Show Profile Send Dances with Needles a Private Message
Well, what drove miss alcoholic off besides the sweater was having my son's father (not the same person as DH) anounce to a large group of strangers that she was My son's feancee. They had never even considered marrying and that was one of the final straws. As to DD's boyfriend if you suspect that Domestic violence is in the picture: do not criticise him, talk to your local battered women's shelter, be very insistent that you will visit her often no matter what he thinks, and when she visits at your house have the domestic violence literature in the bathroom with nothing else to read available. If she complains, point her to the battered womens shelter or outreach or national hotline. they are the better people to point out this stuff, just because they are not her mom and dad. How do I know? 1. I was one. I knew about DV I just did not know it was what I was experiencing.2.I worked in a shelter for a while.

DWN
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Chemcats
Permanent Resident

3337 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  03:09:55 AM  Show Profile Send Chemcats a Private Message
Susi, I second what Lin said!! Take it from the idiot daughter that had the worst taste in men. The more you complain or make comments the more she will make excuses and cover for him. My mother groused but it did no good.

Just sit back and wait, but be prepared to act fast when she needs you.

Meribeth
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gwtreece
Permanent Resident

USA
7254 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  05:39:41 AM  Show Profile  Send gwtreece a Yahoo! Message Send gwtreece a Private Message
Completely agree, the more you complain the more they cling. My brother has the worst taste in women. Finally on his 4th marriage and BTW he is only 34, he got it right.

Wanda
My Blog
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llinn
honorary angel

USA
1650 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  1:02:42 PM  Show Profile Send llinn a Private Message
Susi, I would flat out tell her you don't like him. Never criticize him, just you don't like him and refuse to discuss him. When you talk, you talk about her. If she starts to tell you about something he has done, ask her if she is looking for advice, your advice is to dumpt him and beyond that you are not interested in anything about him.
When she complains to you she is looking to provoke a reaction in you that she can then use to bolster her rebellion. If you short circuit this, she will have to confront his behavior on her own.
I probably am not explaining it well, but honestly, talking and listening about his behavior is a type of enabling behavior.
You have to continually make the lines clear. You love her. You want to know about her. You do not like or approve of him. You want to know nothing about him.
This will force her to confront his actions on her own
Good luck and remember if you decide to kill him I know how to hide the body.
Lin
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kadiddly
Permanent Resident

USA
3076 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  6:24:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit kadiddly's Homepage  Send kadiddly a Yahoo! Message Send kadiddly a Private Message
I'm sorry anyone is in that kind of uncomfortable situation. I suppose I would agree with most of the people here. Tell her that you don't like him, and don't think he's good enough for her (that always got MY attention - we're all vain about something), and then drop it. Do not give her any reason to accuse you of rudeness or malice around him, but you don't have to bend over backwards being kind to him. Just kind of treat it as something that is somewhat beneath you, but you are too much of a lady to do or say anything rude. And don't knit for him. No matter what happens, ultimately, it's her life and her decision who she partners with, no matter if you approve or not. Your opinion does count, of course, and of course you can still love and support her without loving and supporting him. But it is her life and her heart and she's the only one who can come close to knowing how she feels.

"Alright everyone, back to your knitting..."
- Fred or George Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (movie)
Backstage Stitches
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Dances with Needles
Chatty Knitter

197 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  10:59:03 AM  Show Profile Send Dances with Needles a Private Message
My stock response to the complaints about the boyfriend or in fact anything that I am not directly responsible for in someone elses life is, "oh, My. What are you going to do about that?"
indicating that I do not intend to do anything about it, that they are responsible for doing whatever and that I am interested to hear about whatever they figure out to do.
Other helpful statements are, "I am not here to judge your choices, I am here to support you. Not your relationships, not your lifestyle, you."
" and how is that working for you? is it getting you what you want?"
Another manner of dealing with the whole bb of the dd is that you respond to any rant she makes with a moment of blank look at her and then going on to another subject, neither a positive or a negative response.

DWN
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ozknitter
Permanent Resident

Australia
3291 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2006 :  11:26:50 PM  Show Profile Send ozknitter a Private Message
Oh Lin,

You crack me up, you have just described my 16 year old son to a T. Socks are fine, so are gloves, no fingers though, have to look like a tramp.

I'm knitting him the Jolly Roger Sweater from that little offshoot magazine from Vogue Knitting combined with the arms from Stitch'n'bee-hotch, all in black of course, baggy and of course must have a hood and pockets.

Although it still remains to be seen if he will wear it or not, if not my DH will probably wear it.

Also one time he had all his mates around in his room and I noticed one of them had gone into the spare room with his girlfriend, so I knocked on the door and said "there are condoms in the top drawer in the bathroom". My son was mortified beyond belief and buried his head in a pillow.

Meanwhile all his mates are lining up saying "will you adopt me".

Knit in peace and harmony.


Rose in Melbourne, Australia.
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gwtreece
Permanent Resident

USA
7254 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2006 :  05:22:19 AM  Show Profile  Send gwtreece a Yahoo! Message Send gwtreece a Private Message
Lin, You described the male to a T.

Wanda
My Blog
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