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 >Provisional< tubular cast-on
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Ceil
Permanent Resident

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  11:40:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This cast-on is taught in the summer 2001 issue of Knitter's Magazine. Someone might save me some time if I know in advance what "provisional" means. (I mean, I do know what it means,but this time it might be confusing!)

Am I going to wind up with live loops on the starting edge once I take the crochet chain out? Or will it stand on its own without coming apart?

Thanks,

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.

draymer
Permanent Resident

USA
1490 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  2:25:34 PM  Show Profile Send draymer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Provisional means you can take out the waste yarn, and have live stitches. Only use if you want to put on an edging, or are starting something (like a hat which is double thickness) in the middle.
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yarnlover
Permanent Resident

1753 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  5:21:51 PM  Show Profile Send yarnlover a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You will have live loops as you remove the crochet stitches. I've used this type of cast on for gussets and things like that. When you remove the crochet, do it one stitch at a time, and slip the stitch on the knitting needle. You might be able to unzip the crochet chain leaving all the live stitches open, then go along and pick them up on your needle - if the yarn isn't such that will unravel easily.

One thing I learned is to tie a knot in the end of tail of the crochet chain to indicate which end you will pull on to unzip the crochet. I can say from experience, this can be very helpful.

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Ceil
Permanent Resident

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  7:37:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Then this is not the cast-on I want for this particular project. EXCEPT:

The photo of a swatch with this cast-on shows a finished edge. Are you SURE there will be live loops?

Thanks!

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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yarnlover
Permanent Resident

1753 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  04:44:52 AM  Show Profile Send yarnlover a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only provisional cast on that I have used is using a crochet chain and "picking up" my stitches in the back bump of each crochet stitch. I use this to put a gusset in mittens between the thumb and hand. When I finish the thumb, I put some stitches on a holder and about 5-9, depending guage on the provisional cast on.

Then, those stitches on the provisional cast on become part of the mitten. I knit the stitches in the hand part of the mitten, decreasing as I go to create the top of a diamond shape for the gusset. When I go back to finish the thumb, I pull out the crochet chain, stitch by stitch and yes, I'm sure the stitches are live. They go back on my knitting needle, one by one, and I finish the thumb, incorporating those live stitches into those that I'd put on a holder.

I plan to knit some lace scarves and will use this provisional cast on to knit from the middle to the end on one side, then pick up the provisional stitches and knit again from that point to the other end to have both sides match.

I know there are other kinds of provisional cast ons, especially one in which you wrap the yarn around one needle, but I haven't been able to conquer that challenge, so I stick to the one I can handle.

What are you planning to knit?

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Kade1301
Permanent Resident

France
1438 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  05:58:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kade1301's Homepage Send Kade1301 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ceil, difficult to say without seeing the article. But for me provisional cast-on and tubular cast-on are two different techniques (even though I confuse the terminology all the time and once even the actual technique - I don't use a crochet chain for provisional but just a piece of waste yarn, but it's a different wrapping movement). The point of a provisional cast on (and there's something like half a dozen different ways) is to have live stitches at the cast-on edge. Meaning you can continue knitting in the opposite direction, or you can graft a tube shut, or you can decide on a finish that goes with you cast-off edge, or...

The point of a tubular cast-on is (at least the way I use it) either to have a stretchy edge on 1/1 rib (cuffs etc.), or to start the bottom of a simple, knit in the round, bag without a seam. For cuffs etc. I do the first two rows separately, then knit/purl normally. For bags I keep the two layers separate.

I second yarnlovers question: What's your project?

Happy knitting, Klara



http://www.lahottee.info
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rosir
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
442 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  09:04:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit rosir's Homepage Send rosir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Ceil,
If what you're looking for is a finished edge that looks hemmed, I think this video will help.

Good Luck,

Rosi
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technikat
Gabber Extraordinaire

595 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  2:48:29 PM  Show Profile Send technikat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ceil,
Techknitter describes a provisional tubular cast on. The provisional part is how you start the cast on. You do not end up with live loops when the provisional yarn is removed.
http://techknitting.blogspot.com/2008/01/provisional-tail-method-of-1-x-1.html


My FOs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/technikat/
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draymer
Permanent Resident

USA
1490 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  5:16:27 PM  Show Profile Send draymer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I stand corrected! The provisional threw me. This looks useful - I heard it provides a good edge for ribbing.
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Ceil
Permanent Resident

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  8:13:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by technikat

http://techknitting.blogspot.com/2008/01/provisional-tail-method-of-1-x-1.html



I decided to look up some other options on the Internet and found this same blog last night. (Good minds travel in the same directions.) I gave it a try and got some things backwards, but it's promising. And yes, the edge is interlaced, not leaving live stitches when the waste yarn is removed. I need this for the Jolien sweater I am journalling about at Ravelry as I knit. Off to give it a second go. I'm hopeful this will work.

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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JillN
Warming Up

62 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2011 :  05:45:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit JillN's Homepage Send JillN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by draymer

I heard it provides a good edge for ribbing.


This is my favorite cast on for 1 X 1 ribbing - it's totally invisible once it's done, you don't even see a cast on edge!

And practice makes perfect - I started using this for my hats so I could get practice in, and once you have it down, it's a great cast-on to add to your skillset.
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churchlady
Warming Up

Canada
81 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2011 :  08:32:39 AM  Show Profile Send churchlady a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Ceil,

Thanks for bringing up this topic. Tubular cast-on has always scared me, but looking now at so many different resources that people have referenced, I realize that bits and pieces of familiar techniques are so mingled in there that Tubular cast-on will definitely be what I will use to start my next 1x1 rib project.
Sandra
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident

France
1438 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2011 :  08:55:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kade1301's Homepage Send Kade1301 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, the result is the tubular cast-on I meant, but I believe I use the long-tail method (can't watch the video, though), and I only have to set-up rounds (i.e. one cast-on, one for the knit stitches, one for the purls). It saves me from finding extra yarn, and I don't need to find a tail to pull out.

The cast-on is a bit confusing at first, but it's well worth learning. And in the end not more difficult than the other methods (contrary to tubular cast-off which I continue to dislike very strongly. One reason to start handwarmers at the cuffs and hats at the brim). By the way, I use my provisional-cast on all the time for circular knitting, and for wrist-size circles I have not problems (I close the round after the first row of knit the knit stitches).

Happy knitting, Klara

http://www.lahottee.info
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yarnlover
Permanent Resident

1753 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2011 :  5:50:30 PM  Show Profile Send yarnlover a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm inspired to try some other provisional cast-ons. I knit a lot of hats with 1x1 ribbing and am now anxious to try the tubular cast on. Thanks for all the great info.

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