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stitchellen
Warming Up

55 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  06:48:12 AM  Show Profile Send stitchellen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I admit to be an old fogie of 77, but in my opinion children should not be allowed to join a group of adult knitters. Sleeping babies in their carriers might be OK, though. If the LSO welcomes children at such a gathering, she (or he?) should provide a section of the shop where children can play, within sight of their mothers or caretakers. Perhaps the LSO should have the women respond to a questionnaire that addresses the subject.
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chris
Permanent Resident

USA
2463 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  07:32:45 AM  Show Profile Send chris a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My (82YO) MIL would side with those who say the kids should be there. Children need to learn to deal with older people and it takes a village to raise a child. (It's why she refuses to move into a retirement community despite the fact that she is becoming less capable of living alone, but that's another story altogether.) Uh, yeah, right. If only that kid's mom would allow me to correct her child if I see him/her doing wrong, instead of suing me for trying to prevent a catastrophe.

I, however, am with those who say "leave the kiddies at home". If (what a big little word!) there is enough room for everyone - which, at most LYSs and coffee shops, there isn't - fine, bring them and corral them somewhere with something to keep them busy. But I don't want them whining every few minutes to their mom in the beside my chair: "Mooooommmm, when are we going hooooommme?" I raised my kids; I take care of my (autistic) grandson. I came here to knit with adults, not be surrounded by kids.

Let's face it: we can't have everything even though they tell us we can. Decide whether you want to spend time with a knitting group or with your kids, then either go to knitter's night or stay home and read to your kiddies!

Yes, I'm old and crabby. But as someone said, I've paid my dues. I've earned the right. Harrumph.
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robin.cadmus@gmail.com
New Pal

4 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  07:48:11 AM  Show Profile Send robin.cadmus@gmail.com a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a real good question and somewhat timely. I think that one thing missing in today's scenario is respect for adults. As a previous knitter mentioned, at age 58, I still call some people by Mr., Mrs. etc. No problem bringing the children. They should be allowed to interact in a polite , unobtrusive way. They should sit quietly in their own chair (how special to have their own chair at their mom's knitting night) with a project of their own; coloring, legos, etc. Teach the children that there are times to be quiet and respect what others are doing. When I grew up it was "children are to be seen and not heard". I didn't turnout too bad, but I haven't asked my friends about that. LOL. I will step down now…..
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pqpatch
Seriously Hooked

USA
617 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  07:55:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit pqpatch's Homepage Send pqpatch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess I am with on being old and cranky LOL. Yes the child should be supervised or been left home. Think of the child. They may get bored silly and that is when they act out. If the child is learning to knit that is a different story. But I think it is better if the child is taken to an actual knitting class for the young. An adult knitting gathering should be relaxing. Some of us want to get away for awhile from the hectic everyday and listening to parents having to correct their children or tell them to behave is not relaxing. I raised my children and am beyond having to contend with such.

Patty

http://www.etsy.com/shop/twistedsticks?ref=si_shop
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Mirl56
Chatty Knitter

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  08:15:03 AM  Show Profile Send Mirl56 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I get that it's a good thing to expose kids to knitting, even before they are old enough to learn. But at a knit night they do need to give up their chair to an elder, even if they are actively learning to knit. Everyone should know to give up their seat to an elder in any situation.

Any kids in attendance need to be able to entertain themselves and sit quietly at Mom/Dad's feet, at least in eye-sight. They should not be allowed to run around the shop, it is not the shop keepers job to supervise the kids.
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CastOn
New Pal

1 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  09:35:11 AM  Show Profile Send CastOn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think if you take the word 'child' out of the question, thereby removing the emotions involved with different parenting styles, the answer becomes apparent.
So, if the event is for knitters, should a person who is not knitting give up their seat to someone who is? Yes.

I should add that, yes I am a parent, lest someone think I take this position because I don't understand children. One venue cannot be all things to all people. While I believe in 'suffer the little children', in other words make accommodations for the needs of children, this venue is about knitting.

Once a parent, there are many adjustments to be made, such as not taking the stroller with baby into a restaurant that does not cater to children, or not going to some meetings because I didn't have a sitter and it wasn't responsible to the purpose of the meeting, the other people at the meeting, or to my child, for me to show up with a child.
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northernnitter
New Pal

2 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  10:03:50 AM  Show Profile Send northernnitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Our LYS has a knit-in on Saturday afternoons so for some Moms it's come with children or not at all. We have been very lucky with the Moms in our group who are sensible enough to opt out when their children are of an age where expecting them to sit quietly is an unreasonable expectation. This has meant that sometimes the Mom can only attend intermittently for a couple of years, unless they have a child care option.

With the children who do attend, the Moms usually bring crafts or knitting for them, and even bring along their own folding chair so as not to take a seat from a knitter. Only once or twice has there been a problem, usually it's just a noise issue when there are a couple of kiddies at the same time and they forget their manners when they are playing.

As I said, we've been very lucky to have Moms who have expectations for their own children's behavior, and we'd rather have their reasonably well behaved children than not have the Moms able to attend.

Now after saying all that, I am in agreement that if the children cannot be expected to behave, or the Mom is unwilling to be accountable, then the children should not be there.

Sorry for writing a whole book.........
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captainmom
New Pal

4 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  11:43:32 AM  Show Profile Send captainmom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I belong to two adult knitting groups & many of us are grandmothers. During summer vacation & school holiday time some of us do child care, for our grandkids. Whenever we bring these children, ages 7 to 14, to our knitting group they bring a book or hand held game. Some of them learn to knit, but if they get bored they read or play their game quietly. Those with younger children or grandchildren stay home, so as not to spoil the time for others.
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leilasue
New Pal

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  12:13:42 PM  Show Profile Send leilasue a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm crabby too, I guess. Knit Night is for adults only. Even though my kids are grown, if I were going to a knit night when they were small, they stayed home. And I also agree, the LYS owner should specify "kids or no kids". And non knitting kids should give up their seat to a knitter, if it's the only seat available.

Cornelia C. Donovan
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Whoopdedo
New Pal

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  09:28:40 AM  Show Profile Send Whoopdedo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Goodness, you are not being crabby imo. Please don't blame yourself (or your age)because of the lack of consideration of others. I think the issue (non issue really) is about courtesy,and good manners that really should be taught to our children but often are not. That is something that doesn't get old or out of favor. Personally I also agree that this is a time for knitter's, a day/night out so to speak. It reminds me of when I have the opportunity to have a pedicure,and someone brings children into the spa,and they are allowed to run around,cry,whine. I believe that's just plain inconsiderate of others.
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Sakitty08
New Pal

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  09:37:03 AM  Show Profile Send Sakitty08 a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I agree with what some of others have mentioned; this is really a matter of common courtesy and polite manners on both sides of the coin--which includes mothers bringing children, others with non-knitting guests and also the LYS. If the seating is limited (which in the case of this LYS and most LYSs, it is), then anyone seeking to come to Knit Night should call in advance and see if there will be seating available--actually the LYS still might have the same problem with seating if a number of adult knitters show up, as one responder mentioned. RVSP please and all problems thus solved! Only except if the list is full--then the LYS should take the potential Knit Night guest's name and hold a spot for him or her for a limited time in which the person has to RVSP or the spot will become open to all others--first come, first served
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antwerpnative
New Pal

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  09:53:03 AM  Show Profile Send antwerpnative a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also attend a knitting night out - I love kids, but I look forward to knitting with adults only and having adult conversations and not have to watch the topics that we discuss.
In our group, only adults attend and that parameter was set up by the group moderator.
This is a tricky situations and of course the LYS owner should have made it clear whether kids were allowed.
I the kids are knitting, I don't think that they should give up their seats, but the owner should know about how many people are attending and have folding chairs available.
I work part time in my local LYS and some kids can be pretty active and touchy and pull yarns off the shelves. = just saying. More communication and rules at the outset would alleviate any hurt feelings.
Betty
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ConnieHere
New Pal

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  11:12:08 AM  Show Profile Send ConnieHere a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to say that having children at a Knit Night is not something I would enjoy. Perhaps if the child was knitting, but, even then, you can imagine the adult conversations and/or language that would occur and may offend.
I'm nearly 60 (that sounds like a little one who is almost 6, doesn't it) and childless, so I probably fall into the crabby lot anyway. But if there were kids at Knit Night, I would not be a happy knitter.

cg
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materavis
New Pal

40 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  11:51:30 AM  Show Profile Send materavis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's all about behaviour. What about the adult who cracks gum, blows smoke in your face, or uses profanity? These things happen in adult groups too. As a mother I'm raising the future generation; it's my job to prepare them for real life. So, if a child is willing--and able--to abide by the rules of the group and engage in the group's activity, they should be allowed to give it a try. I've been knitting for 50+ years (yes I'm an older parent), and I love sharing it with the younger generation. That is, provided the young person can sit still, hold an appropriate conversation, be quiet and listen when that is called for, and respect other's personal space and personal property. My mother taught us that every privelage confers responsibility. If the privelage is earned, let it be given.
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gcelee
New Pal

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  2:08:03 PM  Show Profile Send gcelee a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tough topic! I'm also a childless crabby lady of 50. Although I do thoroughly enjoy children, I agree with most of the others that most children don't belong at Knit Night. I've been part of the same group for many years and too often our conversations are not for young ears. Adults need time to discuss adult things, and Knit Night is frequently that time. My group has enjoyed babies over the years but once a child is old enough to run around and get into the store's merchandise, it's time to leave them home. For the parents with the children who are learning to knit or who are knitters, I'd suggest checking with group before bringing the child. Children do need to learn how to sit and interact with adults, but it's a group choice to have children join.

cl
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hillstreetmama
Permanent Resident

USA
3448 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  09:14:39 AM  Show Profile Send hillstreetmama a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another point is the length of time they are there. If Mom stops by to buy a couple skeins of yarn, ask for quick help with a problem, or to show us a finished project, having the kids there is not an issue. After all, it's just a few minutes, and we can all make nice. But when they stay for 1 1/2 to 2 hours... it may work for one week, but the kids are going to get bored doing this week after week, and cannot be expected to sit still and be quiet when they should be at home getting ready for bed. There's usually one "grandma type" in the group that tries to talk to the kids and help distract them, but we didn't come to be a babysitter. We came for adult conversation and knitting.

Jan
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kkknitter
Seriously Hooked

698 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  11:08:57 AM  Show Profile Send kkknitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm siding with all of you old (62 myself), crabby, unreasonable ladies on this thread. There is a place for everything. Start get-togethers for moms and their kids, that would solve the problem.

Kristina
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Irish Red
Warming Up

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2011 :  12:29:57 PM  Show Profile Send Irish Red a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with those who recommend a separate Knit Night for those with children. If the LYSO is not willing to have two such occasions, then I would advise her to reflect on which group brings her the most business. I personally would not attend a group that has small children present any more than I would go to a Book Club with children. When my kids were little, they attended events at which they were welcome, not everything in which I had an interest. They were closely supervised, not allowed to rearrange shelves or jump off furniture. It is just good manners and a show of respect to supervise and be attentive to one's children. We get together, share adult conversation and occasionally, an adult beverage. All too often, children have barged between knitters, try to drink the wine (as they 'whined') and gobbled up all the snacks, (since when do children select pate and stuffed mushrooms as their first choice?) I don't think they belong there and moms should get a clue that all of us don't find their little 'darlings' precious. I may be crabby too, but that's ok. I raised my kids and I don't want to raise someone else's too lazy to get a sitter.

The Industrious Bee
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auntlinda
Chatty Knitter

USA
191 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  11:07:45 AM  Show Profile Send auntlinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with the "crabby" ones here - no kids. My knitting group used to meet at a LYS on Saturday afternoons. One of the reasons we now meet in each others' homes was because of out-of-control kids and oblivious moms who did not lift a finger to control their monsters. Add to that the fact that these toddlers always had stinky diapers - we don't regret our decision one bit. (BTW - the oblivious moms weren't invited to our new group.)

~Linda
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