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Milinda
Permanent Resident

USA
3817 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2011 :  5:21:23 PM  Show Profile Send Milinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can manage decent short rows but for the first time have found myself in the position of a project knit in the round requiring short rows. I have gone online and looked at ALL the different methods, yarn over, Japanese, the regular wrap & turn. What I am encountering is a less-than stellar look to the second one since it has to be picked up on a knit row after being done as a purl.

I execute it as one would do it for a purl row but when I have to come back to join the gaps, because I am knitting in the round, when I encounter the second one, it has to be picked up on a knit row and it always looks really awful.

Have any of you encountered this and how did you deal with it?

M L

kkknitter
Seriously Hooked

699 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  04:41:45 AM  Show Profile Send kkknitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Milinda, I just had the same problem on a toddler sweater knit in the round with short rows in front. I ended up skipping the pattern to try to make it at least look a little more planed, but I found it impossible to close the gap as nicely as on the short rows done on the right side. It will be interesting to see if someone has a solution.

Kristina
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Vcoerulea
Chatty Knitter

USA
104 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  05:07:58 AM  Show Profile Send Vcoerulea a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know if this will help,but have you tried the Fleegle Heel Short Row?It's on her blog under Sept.2009.
HTH
Elizabeth
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eldergirl
Permanent Resident

USA
1809 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  05:29:09 AM  Show Profile Send eldergirl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, Meg Swanson at Schoolhouse Press designs and sweaters almost always in the round, and short rows are plentiful for shaping. She has archived many of her techniques, and also has the entire library and books of her mother, Elizabeth Zimmerman. If you call Schoolhouse Press, and ask which of the books the best description is in, that might be one way. They carry many books, all of them fascinating, and some out of the ordinary.

Or, if you are not familiar with EZ, buy all her books, starting with "Knitting without Tears", and become amazed and endeared to the beloved, dear departed Elizabeth, whose daughter Meg takes her place and the amount of encouragement and information is phenomenal.

Best wishes,

Anna

Life is beautiful.
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kkknitter
Seriously Hooked

699 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  10:19:58 AM  Show Profile Send kkknitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will check my EZ book.
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kkknitter
Seriously Hooked

699 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  10:29:39 AM  Show Profile Send kkknitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EZ says " Upon meeting the wrap again, choose between knitting the wrap and the slipped stitched together; or, since the wrap resembles a purl-bump, ignore it and knit on.

Milinda does this help you?
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Milinda
Permanent Resident

USA
3817 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  2:36:59 PM  Show Profile Send Milinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kkknitter

EZ says " Upon meeting the wrap again, choose between knitting the wrap and the slipped stitched together; or, since the wrap resembles a purl-bump, ignore it and knit on.

Milinda does this help you?



:: I really appreciate all of you for cheering me on. My problem with "ignoring" the purl bump is that it is a purl bump in the middle of a knit row and it shows. Also, knitting it leaves a hole. I guess I will have to keep fiddling around.

I have heard that Knitting in the Old Way covers issues involving knitting in the round. Has anyone seen that book or have a copy of it? This is such a weird thing in that for all the many decades I have been knitting I have never done short rows in the round and I think I was feeling very confident as a knitter and now I am stumped. LOL

M L
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rosir
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
442 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  3:19:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit rosir's Homepage Send rosir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Milinda,
Don't know if this will help you but this is the site I use when I forget how to hide the wraps.
Hope it helps. This site is an example that exemplifies the generosity of knitters. Good luck.

Rosi
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rosir
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
442 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  3:21:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit rosir's Homepage Send rosir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
P.S. I found that I was picking up the wrap the same way whether it was on the knit or purl side. Leaves a hole every time. Check out illustration 3d. Hope it helps.
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auntlinda
Chatty Knitter

USA
199 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  1:18:16 PM  Show Profile Send auntlinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way I finally solved this is a little hard to describe.

First, I add a new strand of yarn and do my short row - then, break that yarn off (if I'm not doing another short row right away).

Next, I put all those stitches one by one back onto the left needle until I'm back to where I started the short row.

Then finally, I resume knitting with my original yarn. I come back later to darn in the loose ends of the short row on the backside.

I find it's pretty invisible provided you don't try to cinch it up too tight.

~Linda
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Vcoerulea
Chatty Knitter

USA
104 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  2:25:27 PM  Show Profile Send Vcoerulea a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Knitting in the Old Way does have a different way of doing the short rows. All first stitches after you turn your work are slipped purlwise with no wrap. When you return to knitting the full round, you fold your work forward and pick up the bar below the slipped stitch (thereby tightening the slst) and k2tog.
HTH
Elizabeth
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Milinda
Permanent Resident

USA
3817 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2011 :  12:04:10 PM  Show Profile Send Milinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want to thank you all again for coming to my aid.

I am so excited to announce that within The Best of Interweave Knits there is an excellent article written by Veronik Avery that explains in detail how to do short rows in the round and I am so relievd. LOL

M L
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technikat
Gabber Extraordinaire

595 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2011 :  6:45:40 PM  Show Profile Send technikat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's great, Melinda! I've had exactly the same problem as you.
Which of the many Best of Interweave books is this article in?

My FOs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/technikat/
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Ceil
Permanent Resident

USA
1804 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2011 :  8:55:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
YES, I have KITOW, and PGR talks about short rows in the round there, and am finally getting the hang of them. Just recently I got the left-hand join to look really good (I seem to find a choice of purl bumps to pick up, and kept choosing the wrong one!). That's the first one you come to after working the short rows. The right-hand join is a little trickier, but when working on dpns, I move the stitches around so a few more precede the join stitch on the needle. This won't be a problem with a circ, though. These are VERY invisible when done right. I recommend practicing on a very light-colored, worsted-weight yarn so that you can see what you're doing. I also bought one of those magnifiers that leans on my chest AND lights up, to help see this maneuver.

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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Punctuatedknitter
Seriously Hooked

819 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  05:41:06 AM  Show Profile Send Punctuatedknitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I too would like to know where the Veronik Avery article is. I don't have "Best of" but I do have IK back issues.

Sounds like Knitting in the Old Way needs to go on my Christmas list as well!
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metromaples
Seriously Hooked

USA
878 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  07:07:47 AM  Show Profile Send metromaples a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cocoknit tutorial is my favorite site to look at when I need short row reminders. Here is a http://www.cocoknits.com/info/tutorials/shortrows.html.

-- Jeri
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emahar


Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  08:40:28 AM  Show Profile Send emahar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a link to another tutorial on short rows in the round.


http://www.purlbee.com/short-row-tutorial/

Ellen
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couleeca
New Pal

6 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  08:54:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit couleeca's Homepage Send couleeca a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Veronik Avery's short row article is in the Winter 2004 issue of IK - page 96.

quote:
Originally posted by Punctuatedknitter

I too would like to know where the Veronik Avery article is. I don't have "Best of" but I do have IK back issues.

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churchlady
Warming Up

Canada
81 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  09:11:13 AM  Show Profile Send churchlady a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something I learned by practical experience in my current sweater in-the-round is to always make sure that you're knitting (or purling) the wrap loop and your stitch together with the wrap loop on the WRONG side. Something TECHknitter mentioned on her excellent tutorial. I add short rows to almost every sweater I make, since my shape has bulges no standard pattern ever expects, and I love to knit in the round, so this topic is very educational.
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couleeca
New Pal

6 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  09:24:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit couleeca's Homepage Send couleeca a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually it was a series of two articles - taken together they are a very thorough discussion of why and how to use short rows, and how to actually knit them. Winter 2004, page 96, and Winter 2005, page 80.
quote:
Originally posted by couleeca

Veronik Avery's short row article is in the Winter 2004 issue of IK - page 96.

quote:
Originally posted by Punctuatedknitter

I too would like to know where the Veronik Avery article is. I don't have "Best of" but I do have IK back issues.



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gcelee
New Pal

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2011 :  10:09:56 AM  Show Profile Send gcelee a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The article Melinda is referring to is in 'The Best of Interweave Knits: Our Favorite Designs From the First Ten Years'. This was edited by Ann Budd with a foward by Pam Allen. The ISBN is 978-1-59668-033-3, published in 2007. Veronik's article is on page 115. Hope this information helps!

I thought is was a good article, definitely helpful. I'll be using short rows on a sweater that's on the needles now (in the round), so the timing is great for me! I'm working on the Cabaret Raglan, only I'm doing it in the round. When I know a project will be carried around a lot, I prefer to work it in the round. The project may get larger but i like having the entire piece with me, intact. I seem to get better results that way.
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