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HopkinGreen
Chatty Knitter
182 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2012 : 8:29:56 PM
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Okay... So we've had a yarn dyeing party just recently at my house. I've done several other experiments with yarn dyeing with food colorings. I bought these huge bottles of food coloring from a restaurant supplier. I've long suspected that we were using too much dye -we've done this three times and we seem to go through a lot of dye, but I think we *really* went through too much dye last time!
Also, with my hosting and running about - my skeins sat in the dye bath far longer than I wanted them to. So instead of them being the color I wanted - they're all now *WAY* too dark!
So here are my questions:
How do you determine how much food coloring to use per skein when using food coloring to dye yarn? I'm talking about the sort of food coloring you might find at the grocery store, like McCormick's. Is there a good rule-of-thumb guide for how much dye to use per 50 grams of yarn?
If you've accidentally used too much dye in your yarn bath, is there any way we can remove some of the dye or lighten the yarn again, so I can either start over again or just lighten the color in general?
The yarns I'm using are super wash wool and just ordinary wool...
Thanks!
Elise
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eldergirl
Permanent Resident
USA
1673 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 5:48:20 PM
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What a good question! I really haven't a clue, Elise, but I have been intimidated by the seeming "trial and error" way of directions for dyeing yarn!
Anna
Life is beautiful. |
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Shelia
Permanent Resident
USA
2314 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 6:31:21 PM
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I don't dye with food coloring, but the general rule of thumb is that *all* of the dye should be absorbed by the yarn, so how long your skeins sit in the dye doesn't matter. What matters is the concentration of dye in your dye stock for the weight of the yarn that you'll be putting in your dye stock. There are lots of formulas out there for commercial acid dyes, but I don't know if those kind of formulas exist for food coloring. I've never tried to remove dyes that have already been heat set.
If you're buying such large quantities of food coloring, you might want to consider using acid dyes, where you can measure the dye powder for your stock solutions and control the depth of color. It would be more cost effective, too, and is basically the same type of dye that you are using. Food coloring is just packaged differently, it's not inherently any safer.
Shelia
www.breezyridgestudio.com
ravelry name - sheliaknits |
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purlewe
Permanent Resident
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 08:44:21 AM
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I agree with Shelia, your dyebath should be clear when you are done dyeing. And really? you should be using very little dye to make your projects. it really is a feel thing for me tho.. I do mix up acid dyes, make stock solutions, and then water them down to dye my projects. Perhaps the food coloring could be considered your stock solution and you should be starting with say a tbl per cup of water.
Perhaps doing experiments of your own before inviting a large group over. start with less dye and work up to the saturation levels you want. When you rinse your yarns? they should run clear right away.
Life is not a having and a getting, but a being and a becoming. ~Myrna Loy
http://purlewe.typepad.com/ |
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HopkinGreen
Chatty Knitter
182 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 1:20:03 PM
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Thanks for the helpful suggestions on acid dyes... I've been considering trying those out and certainly if there was some kind of set formula for how much to use per ounce, that would be extremely helpful!
I did get some advice on another forum on ravelry, where they dye with kool-aid, food coloring and others... I agree that it's more difficult to pin down an exact formula that way. It seems somewhat trial and error to some extent, though there was some helpful advice on rule-of-thumb guidelines that should at least prevent me from dumping in a cup of concentrated food color for only a few skeins... It seems another good thing to do is to make up test batches, while dyeing only a small quantity of yarn and using a tiny amount of dye (varying the amount by dropper) in each bottle. Sort of the scientific method approach...
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident
France
1426 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 05:06:50 AM
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quote:
...you might want to consider using acid dyes, .... Food coloring is just packaged differently, it's not inherently any safer.
Do you have a source for that? One reliable enough to bet your life on? Because the reverse of that statement would be that one could dye food with acid dyes... And frankly, whereas I've read before that acid dyes are a lot less dangerous than many other household chemicals (drain cleaner...), I wouldn't dream of ingesting them.
Bye, Klara
http://www.lahottee.info |
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Shelia
Permanent Resident
USA
2314 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 08:54:59 AM
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Well, I consider Deb Menz and Lynne Vogel good sources on the toxicity of dyes, and both of them are of the opinion that since ALL acid dyes contain the same type of dye substance, all require the same care when using and all can have adverse effects if used without care and in high concentrations. Lynne's article in Twist Collective is particularly interesting in that she has found that her acquired chemical sensitivity to dyes is present when using food coloring as well as the purpose-made acid dyes. She describes all dyes as non-toxic, Deb describes them all as toxic, but both advise using the same care when using food coloring as when using Pro-Chem or Jacquard or any other dyes. Food coloring IS an acid dye, so unless you never eat any processed foods you are injesting it, except in the rare cases that natural dye sources are used such as turmeric and cochineal (often called carmine when used in foods, still made of bugs), these are usually not cost effective in commercial food processing. Reversing an argument isn't always the best way to support your position, by the way.
So I stand by my position, using food coloring is generally much more expensive than acid dyes, both are safe when used with care, and results are more predictable when using acid dyes.
Shelia
www.breezyridgestudio.com
ravelry name - sheliaknits |
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yarnlover
Permanent Resident
1729 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 09:57:38 AM
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quote:
Food coloring IS an acid dye
quote:
So I stand by my position, using food coloring is generally much more expensive than acid dyes, both are safe when used with care, and results are more predictable when using acid dyes.
I think I know what you mean, but I couldn't help myself with the above...........
See My Stuff: Here
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Shelia
Permanent Resident
USA
2314 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 07:32:37 AM
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You're right, I should have said "when using commercial acid dyes" or "when using acid dyes sold as dyes, not as food colorings". Thanks for letting me I need to be more clear!
Shelia
www.breezyridgestudio.com
ravelry name - sheliaknits |
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident
France
1426 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 04:15:00 AM
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There seems to be a difference between food dyes in the U.S. and Europe - German Wikipedia gives no indication that the 37 substances permitted to dye food are acid dyes (and where's the acid when they dye whisky with caramel?) In any case, I'll continue to drink Coca Cola but not my dyebaths...
Bye, Klara
http://www.lahottee.info |
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HopkinGreen
Chatty Knitter
182 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2012 : 8:22:31 PM
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Well I have some acid dyes from Dharma showing up eventually, as well as their iDye and iDye Poly for cottons and synthetics respectively. I still have a lot of food coloring dyes stockpiled at this point though, since I put in another order with that restaurant supplier before I really thought about giving the acid dyes a try. So I'll have a chance to experiment with both eventually - though maybe not right away, since I'm about to give birth and have already had contractions. So time is running short on the yarn dyeing experiment.
I would agree though that food coloring dyes are acid dyes as well as the powder dyes that are also acid dyes, like Jacquard or the Dharma acid dyes. In both cases, you use either vinegar or citric acid in order to get the the dye to take for natural fibers - the big difference just seems to be how much you're using. I think the stuff that is packaged as acid dye powders are probably a *LOT* more precise than using the food coloring ones, but it's still possible to get some spectacular results with food coloring or kool-aid (though admittedly, the same results could be had from the acid dyes from Dharma as well). |
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lella
Permanent Resident
9697 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 2:03:19 PM
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I hope you and the baby are doing well!
Because of the cautions issued by every person from whom I've taken advice in using dyes, I do not use any commercial product dyes and never will. I'll always use food coloring dyes because it's not the acid in the commercial dyes for wool, cotton, etc, it's the chemicals in them. That's why you can never use any utensil or even the micro wave again for food stuffs.
I am familiar with Ceramic glaze formulas, and have mixed them for pottery, and the really toxic stuff that is in them for color. I'm sure that some of the commercial dyes for fiber and clothing, etc, have these same chemical/rare earths or metal colorants in them. They really do take great care in the handling of them.
Lella
Zippiknits
"Life is good if you don't weaken." Calvin Coolidge
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Shelia
Permanent Resident
USA
2314 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 07:22:07 AM
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Lella, have you researched what the colorants in food coloring are? In most cases (a few can be made with natural substances, but not many) they are the same chemicals that are in food coloring, it's just that the food coloring pigments have been refined a bit further. Just because it says "red dye #5" doesn't mean it's not a chemical pigment.
I'm not trying to say that no one should use food coloring, or commercial dyes, or even Kool-Ade. I'm just saying that the pigments are really the same in all of these dyes. Kool-Ade has an acid (citric acid, I think) already in it, but all of the others need an acid, which can be as weak as vinegar, in order to set the dyes in protein fibers. Caution is always recommended in mixing dry pigments and in heating during the dye process.
Shelia
www.breezyridgestudio.com
ravelry name - sheliaknits |
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident
France
1426 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 02:09:49 AM
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Assuming the pigments are really the same (which isn't proven yet) - what about the additives? Something to stop the powder from clogging together, z. B., something to facilitate dissolution in water, and heaven know's what else. In food dyes I would expect the stuff to be safe for eating - in fabric dyes not necessarily. Call me naïve, but if I were working with food dyes, I wouldn't hesitate to work in the kitchen, with cooking equipment and possibly even to lick my fingers if I got a stain on it. I might even be tempted to try the taste of Kool-Aid...
As I'm using Ashford dyes, I stick to the workshop and use dedicated equipment...
By the way, is it clear that there's a difference between dyes meant for colouring edible material (such as drinks, or sweets), and those that are used to dye for example easter egg shells (which nobody would want to eat, I suppose) and cheese rinds (which then are labeled - at least in the EU - rind not edible or something to that effect)?
Happy dyeing, Klara
http://www.lahottee.info |
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HELP! It's *all* WAY too dark!
