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quinoak
Warming Up

66 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  08:49:37 AM  Show Profile Send quinoak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lori,
Good news! My mailman just rang my doorbell and handed me my package of needles. That was really fast...ordered Saturday and delivered on Friday. Can't beat that for fast when they were supposed to be backordered. Maybe you will get yours by Monday or Tuesday. Good luck.

Nancy
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Flossie
Warming Up

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  1:22:42 PM  Show Profile Send Flossie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, if this has already been discussed this, oops I missed it while scanning 9 pages of posts in this topic.

When I order my #2 circs from KP it was to replace a pair of INOX 16" (too short) and 40" (too long) already in use. I was going to order 24" Inox but I liked the sound of these.

2 weeks later... yeah they are here. Now to replace the Inox and...

SHOCK!! US 2's are 2.75 mm and these were 3.00mm. Since KP calls them US 2's I assumed that they were standard. Nope.

Now if I hadn't already started the project (lace wt) with the Inox, no problem but I bought them specifically for this WIP so they needed to be the same size.[**]

OK, so I ordered the Inox 24" and am back to waiting to work on this but not to worry. There is this lovely pile of lace growing in my lap called Mystery Stole #2. AND the KP US 3's are the same size so a quick switch from those dull Addies and vola!

I LOVE the pointy little beasties!!! I have the finger pads (Thimble it- someone here recommended - works great) if I need them, so far so good. These little darlings make short work of sl2k1psso and life is great. Plus I'm loveing the mystery stole pattern.

SO here is my 2 cents. Knit Picks should make it more obivious when you order that they have a new sizing system; and that your old-beat-up-never-leave-home-without-it Susan Bates Knit Check is not going to match. The new system is probably good in many ways. The intervals between their sizes is uniform (.50mm) but if you tend to knit to gauge and rarely swatch. Beware! Some of the needles are off by (.25mm)

TTFN

Flossie in SD
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quinoak
Warming Up

66 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  1:55:10 PM  Show Profile Send quinoak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Flossie,
Just got my needles today. Sent you a PM. Thanks for the info about the sizes.

Nancy
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LittleMousling
Permanent Resident

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  2:22:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit LittleMousling's Homepage Send LittleMousling a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Knit Picks should make it more obivious when you order that they have a new sizing system;


They're using the same sizes Addi has used for quite some time; really, the problem is that we don't use metric. I'm trying to change myself, though, at the very least!

-Molly, obsessive but not exclusive socknitter
Stash photos, WIPs and some FOs
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blazfglori
Permanent Resident

USA
1333 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  6:49:32 PM  Show Profile Send blazfglori a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yay Nancy!

I'm happy to hear your needles arrived so quickly!

I just checked and my order status still says *pending*.
I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway. :)

~Lori

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KS
Seriously Hooked

862 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  05:32:56 AM  Show Profile Send KS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The true US size 1 is 2.25mm & the size 2 is 2.75mm. Some brands of needles offer the US sizes & then have the 2.5mm & 3mm ones, calling them size 1 1/2 & 2 1/2. Crystal Palace is one that does that. I really like that becuase when you get down to needles that small, the .25mm can make a noticable difference in your gauge.

I'd like to see Knit Picks offer the in between sizes. They show the metric equivalent on their site, but I'm not sure that most knitters are aware of that little catch in sizing.

KS
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Slipped Stitch
Warming Up

USA
96 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  10:55:43 AM  Show Profile Send Slipped Stitch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My yarn shop's recent newsletter had an item about the standard needle sizes for the US and included a chart listing the standard sizes and how they've changed. If a local yarn shop can tell their customers about this why can't KP?

It seems to me that KP had these needles made (that's why only KP offers them ). They seem to have just copied the screw-in system from Susan Bates ( don't want to copy Denise . . . because the Susan Bates method is not generally known). Why couldn't they get the sizings right instead of just copying Addi's sizes?

Now, I haven't bought an over-priced mis-sized needle but if I did, they'd be returned in a New York minute.
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ceecee
Permanent Resident

1896 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  11:25:59 AM  Show Profile Send ceecee a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To be fair, Knitpicks does list the mm sizes under the number sizes (which is more than what some other online sites do). The 2.5mm and 3.0 mm sizes are common elsewhere in the world, so getting the sizes "right" is not the issue. There are plenty of other needles in the US market in 2.25mm and 2.75 mm, so they may not have wanted an overlap. As for "copying" another maker's design, there are other interchangeables besides Susan Bates with a screw-in system. The bottom line was that they were trying to make a quality interchangeable set, based on knitters' needs and wants. NAYY.
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purlwise
Chatty Knitter

259 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  12:33:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit purlwise's Homepage Send purlwise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slipped Stitch, I've never seen Susan Bates needles like this. Are you really talking about the Boye needles? How are the cords on your Bates needles? Bet they're not as fexible.

I just got my order today (placed July 1st).

I've only knitted a couple of rows of my current Fair Isle project and so far and I love them. The cords are wonderfully flexible and I like the sharp tips. I do push the needle tips as I knit but find these aren't too sharp for that.

If I still like these needles after a few projects then I'll sell my Addi Turbo needles and buy more of these.

For 2.25mm and 2.75mm, I have a couple of Inox nickle-plated needles. I don't use them very often because I don't like the skinny cords. I hope KP comes out with some in these diameters as well.



Regards,
Melinda
www.purlwise.com
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Slipped Stitch
Warming Up

USA
96 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  2:18:55 PM  Show Profile Send Slipped Stitch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I called my local shop and got the scoop to answer ceecee's and purlwise's questions.

The Susan Bates interchangeable needles are no longer made. Haven't been for some time now.

The tips on the Susan Bates needles are the grey finish just like Inox needles ( but I knew that ). The connection system for the Susan Bates and the Boye sets are the same, the only thing that differs are the needle tips and it appears the type of cord.

My Susan Bates cords are not so flexible as the Addis and not so limp as the Denise's ( I've tried that system but just did not like the joint between the cable and the tip -- thankfully, I didn't buy or they'd be gobe on ebay by now ) and much more flexible than the standard Bates circular with that little knob of plastic at the joint of the cable and the needle. The cables on my interchangable set are not tight or rigid but they do have a little structure.

What I see as new is the sharper point on the KP needles tips ( Clara, take a bow for posting the compare and contrast photos because we are all -- or should be --applauding you ) but they're not for me; sometimes the Addis draw blood from my index finger. But for someone whose knitting is tighter, or for certain stitches ( smocked stitch, anyone? ) the sharper point may be a good thing.

Needles, like rolling pins, are very personal. I just think these KP's aren't all that new -- like I said earlier, theyre knock-offs of my Susan Bates set which my shop tells me was a knock-off of the Boye set.

But what I saw on the KP website was a very pricey proposition compared to the other sets: buying the tips and cables all separately adds up pretty quickly to match what I've got. And I was responding to a post which was lamenting that the needles did not match the standard US sizes. When a new product is at least twice the cost of an older ( okay, no longer available but still older ) product, which was almost twice the cost of the original product which is still available ( which I don't use because the needle tips remind me of my grade school librarian ), and the product is being made for the US market, I'd expect the product to made to current industry standards.

That's all I can say. MHO and, as ceecee pointed out too, NAYY.
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achrisvet
Permanent Resident

USA
5986 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  3:25:54 PM  Show Profile Send achrisvet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Slipped Stitch

My yarn shop's recent newsletter had an item about the standard needle sizes for the US and included a chart listing the standard sizes and how they've changed. If a local yarn shop can tell their customers about this why can't KP?

It seems to me that KP had these needles made (that's why only KP offers them ). They seem to have just copied the screw-in system from Susan Bates ( don't want to copy Denise . . . because the Susan Bates method is not generally known). Why couldn't they get the sizings right instead of just copying Addi's sizes?

Now, I haven't bought an over-priced mis-sized needle but if I did, they'd be returned in a New York minute.



They are not mis-sized. On the smaller needles the sizing is confusing. Let's take the US 3 for example. On my Circular Solutions storage hanger it says US 3 = 3 mm. Some needle manufacturers agree, but most call 3.25 mm US 3. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's a problem with comparing metric to US. Again there is no agreement on what constitutes a US 1 or 2. I was special ordering US 1 bamboo needles, then found out that for that manufacturer I had to get a 2 to get the same MM sizing. I don't recall the details now. The best thing is to go metric, especially with the smaller needles. It's not wrong, it's just different.

I'm doing the Mystery Stole also, on US 3, using one needle at each end. I had to make darn sure that both of them were the 3.25 instead of the 3.0 mm US 3! I have both from different manufacturers. You can't blame KnitPicks for this.

Lion Brand and Nancy's KnitKnacks both make very nice needle gauges with all the metric sizes. You can see that certain metric sizes have no US equivalent.

Anita
My completed projects

and here

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cozystitches
Gabber Extraordinaire

507 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  3:39:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit cozystitches's Homepage Send cozystitches a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I ordered a pair of KP's 1s (2.5mm). I love them!!! I'm bummed w/myself as I should have also ordered 0s as well!! I'm glad that I sold my Denise set, as I will be saving up and buying the interchangables.

I love the pointiness, I LOVE the cable. Am totally bummed that I didn't just order the 0s at the same time!!!

Hugs,
tammy

Tammy my Blog http://www.xanga.com/cozystitches
http://www.cozystitches.com
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Laurie K
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
448 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  4:10:02 PM  Show Profile Send Laurie K a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding sizing, there really is no US standard so you will find plenty of discrepencies among needles with regard to sizing. Stick to the metric because in truth that is the actual size.
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purlwise
Chatty Knitter

259 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  4:21:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit purlwise's Homepage Send purlwise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's great that you have needles that work for you and that you're so happy with them. Yes tools are a very personal thing. I'm sure these won't work for everyone. For me they're way much better than anything currently available (with nickle-plated finish).

quote:
But what I saw on the KP website was a very pricey proposition compared to the other sets: buying the tips and cables all separately adds up pretty quickly to match what I've got.


But you can also buy them as a set for $59.95.

quote:
When a new product is at least twice the cost of an older ( okay, no longer available but still older ) product, which was almost twice the cost of the original product which is still available


Which comparable product are you talking about? KP's kit is $59.99. The Boye set is now running around $60 (down from $99) and Denise is $49.95.

I wish lots of things still only cost what they did several years ago, especially Starmore books.

quote:
the product is being made for the US market, I'd expect the product to made to current industry standards


I don't think there is any industry standards but personally, I wish all needles came labeled only in millimeters so that nobody would be confused.


Regards,
Melinda
www.purlwise.com
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Slipped Stitch
Warming Up

USA
96 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  10:29:55 PM  Show Profile Send Slipped Stitch a Private Message  Reply with Quote

achrisvet
quote:
It's a problem with comparing metric to US. Again there is no agreement on what constitutes a US 1 or 2.



Laurie K
quote:
Regarding sizing, there really is no US standard



purlwise
quote:
I don't think there is any industry standards


Without nitpicking ( some pun intended ) there are standards for sizing US needles.

Click on:

http://www.theknitwith.com/newsletter.htm

and then click on the current issue link ( Warning to those on dial-up: this may take some time to load ) Scroll down to page 3.

You'll see there the new standards for sizing needles in the US.

Now, I don't know when this standard was developed; the newsletter only says "recently" but I am sure it's been in the works for some time.

This angle of the discussion really calls into question whether a separate US standard is even necessary. All the rest of the world is knitting using metric sizes ( and we are too, based upon a companion article on page one of the newsletter ).

I don't know about you gals, but wouldn't it just make sense to do away with US sizes and go metric ( ever since Brittany put the metric sizes on their needles, my straights are all metric and I've been keeping track, most patterns are specifying metric size needles too ).

Purlwise, thanks so much for telling us all that KP's interchangeables have brought down the price of the Boye set. That should be good news ( horror memories of Miss Warden, the librarian ) to someone.

Maybe I did my math wrong, but when I went to the KP site and tried to duplicate the set I have, I got a really astounding number by adding up all the separate parts. I didn't focus on the availability of a set at a fixed price, so thanks for the tip and I'll check them out again.

Does anybody know whether their cables are interchangeable with the Boye set?

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achrisvet
Permanent Resident

USA
5986 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2006 :  02:44:44 AM  Show Profile Send achrisvet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting site! I've bookmarked it for future reference. I'm surprised though that the chart doesn't list the 7mm or 7.5 mm size, whihc has no US equivalent. And why do US sizes run in whole numbers until you get to 10.5, then start skipping even numbers?

I agree it would be simpler to just go metric.

The KP needles are not interchangeable with the Boye set. Soeone here tried that earlier.



Anita
My completed projects

and here

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dschmidt
Permanent Resident

4014 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2006 :  2:38:53 PM  Show Profile Send dschmidt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Slipped Stitch

I don't know about you gals, but wouldn't it just make sense to do away with US sizes and go metric ( ever since Brittany put the metric sizes on their needles, my straights are all metric and I've been keeping track, most patterns are specifying metric size needles too ).



Go metric???? Shocking! We are the United States and we cannot use metric. How unpatriotic! I am shocked by the suggestion.[:00]

Donna in VA
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yarnspeaktome
Chatty Knitter

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2006 :  6:36:15 PM  Show Profile  Send yarnspeaktome a Yahoo! Message Send yarnspeaktome a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I purchased a small mini digital caliper (a simple one with no bells or whistles) from amazon.com recently because I have a lot of handmade knitting needles. Though I do have Nancy's Knitpicks gauge card (covers every size quite nicely); I still had needles that didn't quite fit the holes just right. The caliper made my life alot easier and making gauge swatches less of a hassle.

I keep the "in betweens in betweens" (amazing how a couple of mm's can throw things off) in a vase handy; in case the standards don't work. The caliper fits nicely in my knitting bag too.

Elsie W
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achrisvet
Permanent Resident

USA
5986 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2006 :  7:07:27 PM  Show Profile Send achrisvet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dschmidt

quote:
Originally posted by Slipped Stitch

I don't know about you gals, but wouldn't it just make sense to do away with US sizes and go metric ( ever since Brittany put the metric sizes on their needles, my straights are all metric and I've been keeping track, most patterns are specifying metric size needles too ).



Go metric???? Shocking! We are the United States and we cannot use metric. How unpatriotic! I am shocked by the suggestion.[:00]

Donna in VA



LOL! Gracious, no! Not entierely! Just knitting needle sizes!

Anita
My completed projects

and here

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cknits
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
464 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2006 :  8:56:41 PM  Show Profile Send cknits a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ack! Glad I read this page of the thread before starting the second side of my Mystery Stole. I have a KP needle, size 3, in the first half of my Stole and an Inox ready to start the second side. I should have known better than to assume that they would be the same size.

Carrie
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