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 Knitting by pattern is like painting by numbers
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident

France
1436 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  06:30:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kade1301's Homepage Send Kade1301 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What do you think?

Klara

http://www.lahottee.info

fiberlicious
Permanent Resident

1637 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  06:37:13 AM  Show Profile Send fiberlicious a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that not everyone's brain works the same way, and that your statement is insulting to those who can't visualize the way you can.

Since we're not talking about million-dollar artworks, why would anyone care if someone uses a pattern to get a beautiful item?
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anderknit
Permanent Resident

USA
2584 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  06:59:47 AM  Show Profile Send anderknit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about: "Knitting with a pattern is like building a house with blueprints."

"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.' "
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TeenKnitter
Chatty Knitter

USA
125 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  08:40:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit TeenKnitter's Homepage Send TeenKnitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did you mean knitting with charts? Because if you did, I can get that. You know, like the little squares that tell you the colour...

But that probably isn't what you were talking about. I'll go away now.

Annie
"If at first you don't suceed, failure may be your style" Quentin Crisp

Please check out my blog!
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Solaris
Permanent Resident

Canada
4158 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  09:50:28 AM  Show Profile Send Solaris a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm..... Interesting... Maybe.... On some level... and with some patterns. Except that sometimes (figuratively speaking) those numbers are written in some script from unknown language and then you don't know what goes where.

I like anderknit's statement more: "Knitting with a pattern is like building a house with blueprints."

Hmm.... I tend to perceive many patterns more like a cooking recipe instead. You know.... you have a list of 'ingredients', then you have your instructions. You have a lot of room to experiment, too. With paint-by-numbers, the 'directions' are more direct/explicit, less ambiguous (sometimes I wish that all knitting patters were like that). Of course, you can also experiment with paint-by-numbers, but if you experiment/deviate too much, it won't look like the intended original, whereas in knitting you can play a little bit more and still have the FO strongly resemble the intended project.
Just my 3 cents.


________________________________________________
Let's be kind to one another.
My Ravelry page: http://www.ravelry.com/people/solaris
Blog: http://solaris-eaglefeathers.blogspot.com/
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fiddlerbird555
Permanent Resident

USA
1429 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  10:47:40 AM  Show Profile Send fiddlerbird555 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kade1301

What do you think?

Klara

http://www.lahottee.info



Even when I knit to a pattern, I tend to choose a different yarn, change colors, maybe adjust the size to fit better. And I learn, so that in future projects I can be more daring.

I rather like the recipe analogy. My mother trained as a chemist before learning to cook. The way SHE follows a recipe is not creative in the least, but it's exactly as good as the instructions she's given (never better, almost never worse). My sister went to chef's school, and does things completely differently. She creates with food, but still checks out other folks' recipes, while applying her knowlege and inspiration.

____________________________________________________

I can go loopy, or I can knit. Your choice.
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kidknits
Chatty Knitter

USA
295 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  10:55:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit kidknits's Homepage Send kidknits a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simply put: no.

Patterns are used for many, many reasons: some knitters see a pattern and replicate it exactly in the yarn shown because they want that specific garment. Other knitters will take a pattern and knit it in another yarn while making personal adjustments (body length, sleeve length, etc.). And still other knitters will look at a specific technique used in a pattern and apply it to a completely different item.

And not everyone is a knitwear designer. For example, I love knitting socks and understand basic toe-up sock construction, but I use sock patterns because, right now, I'm not interested in designing socks.




http://www.kidknits.biz
http://www.itsabouttheknitting.blogspot.com
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abt1950
Permanent Resident

3019 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  11:01:26 AM  Show Profile Send abt1950 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The recipe analogy is good. Sometimes I follow the recipe to the letter, sometimes I change it. It depends on my mood, the complexity of the recipe, and the ingredients I have on hand. Same thing with patterns.

Anne in NJ

Knit long and prosper
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Milinda
Permanent Resident

USA
3817 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  11:27:37 AM  Show Profile Send Milinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll stick with Kade's analogy and say, I have more trouble following paint by number things than I do when I paint from what I see inside my own imagination. I cannot see the "big picture" from an other's imagination; why I'm supposed to put just a dab of Prussian blue somewhere and then somewhere else whereas I see through my own eye where the colors blend or move or stand out when it comes from me.

This is true of me following patterns, as well. I cannot put myself inside the mind of the pattern designer and see his/her big picture easily(unless it's Atavistic's patterns because she tests her patterns out on me since I am notorious for having difficulty understanding written patterns. ) When I am making my own idea, I use the skills I've learned knitting for over 40 years and I come up with what I set out to do. Most of the time with a few frogging experiences in between.

I can some up with some pretty nice items on my own and mess up a perfectly glorious pattern because I can't figure out the Why or the Wherefore of the designer's POV. Often times, I will read the pattern and then rewrite it in ML Speak.

I'm embarrassed by the fact I can't easily follow patterns and we won't go into how many paint by number projects were completed badly by me.





M L
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PBELKNAP
Permanent Resident

USA
1127 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  12:50:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit PBELKNAP's Homepage Send PBELKNAP a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I tend to be someone who makes changes to a pattern, depending. I'll usually at least go with a different color, if not a different yarn. Sometimes, too, it's fun to take a pattern (especially if it's just stockinette) and apply a different stitch pattern...

*************************
PAM

WIP = Aran Stitch Afghan (crochet), Easy Playtime Set (knit), Patons Cabled Yoke Pullover (knit), House Socks (knit)

Done this year = Scrap Scarf (knit), Gloves (knit), Mittens (knit), Afghan (crochet), Pinwheel Afghan (crochet), Knit Your Bit Scarf for the WWII Museum (knit - charity), Scrap Sweater (knit)

If I could only do this for a living...
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llinn
honorary angel

USA
1650 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  1:45:59 PM  Show Profile Send llinn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
(using best mean mother voice)
Hey, what are you squabbling about!!

I feel like I should be giving you all the speech about tolerance and respect for others and all knitters were created equal and the great knitter in the sky loves us all, even those who use and like acrylic.

Come on, now. You know better. Yeah, for those of us who can see knitting, patterns are a little like paint by numbers (but a really good quality kind that gives you a really nice result). And for some they're like recipe cards, really just a good place to start. And for some they're a refuge from chaos, a place where blissful following gives you pleasure and peace from stress and decisions all day.

Same as how knitting is so many things to so many different people, I'd hate to see our record of tolerance and respect deteriorate over whether it's still okay to call each other names about which path we chose to follow on our way to knitting nirvana.

And what's wrong with paint by numbers. When I was young and not very experienced in a lot of things, those pictures made me feel accomplished and maybe even skillful. I loved Elizabeth Zimmmerman, her patterns, her down to earth approach to knitting, but I also thought she was kind of a stuck-up bi*ch about "blind followers" and only wool was worthy. I like acrylic. I like woven polyester too. I can own and wear a poly georgette dress and have a fighting chance of wearing it a second time. If it were silk, I wouldn't make it out the door before something ripped or was stained. I don't offer disrespect to those who use natural fibers (except the ones who try to call bamboo green), why should I be a bad person because I like something different.

Patterns can be liberating or limiting. I'm a little more worried about the peer pressure, clique forming at Ravelry than I am about using patterns though. But overall, I'd like to concentrate on what I think is the important part of it all.

Knitting gives us a way to make beauty happen. It allows us to participate in creation. How you get there pales beside that.

Llinn
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fiddlerbird555
Permanent Resident

USA
1429 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  1:55:30 PM  Show Profile Send fiddlerbird555 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by llinn

(using best mean mother voice)
Hey, what are you squabbling about!!

Llinn



Who's squabbling? Only one post, and that could easily be just be a case of things sounding nastier than meant. We're clarifying, and offering our own perspectives.

____________________________________________________

I can go loopy, or I can knit. Your choice.
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Kelly B
Permanent Resident

USA
2206 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  2:25:34 PM  Show Profile Send Kelly B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sure, sometimes knitting is like painting by numbers. What's wrong with that? Klara didn't make a value judgment about it when she asked for feedback on the statement. Some people took it negatively, but I don't view it that way. Inventing a design is creative and stimulating, but I don't find it particularly relaxing. Sometimes I'm in the mood for one, sometimes the other. It's magical to watch a beautiful or useful object emerge when I rub a pair of sticks together, whether the design for that object came out of my own head or someone else's. I'm less likely to have to rip back, if that someone else did a good job, and I don't have to think very hard. It doesn't mean I couldn't think that hard, but that I'm in the mood to benefit from somebody else's efforts. And even if I wasn't particularly creative on those projects, they nevertheless demonstrate a certain degree of skill (setting humility aside for the moment. )
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Atavistic
Permanent Resident

6604 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  2:45:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Atavistic's Homepage Send Atavistic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by llinn
I feel like I should be giving you all the speech [...]



<Scratches head. Re-reads thread. Still scratching...>

Um...WHY?

Hand and foot when harmonized forms martialism/but Military and literary when harmonized is art and this brings/philosophy. (Lee, Chang Hoo)
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beedee
Seriously Hooked

USA
705 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  2:47:08 PM  Show Profile Send beedee a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Note that Klara was only posing a question: What do you think about the subject statement. Boy, talk about defensive reflex! AKA as "knee-jerk" reaction.
Ennyway, here's what I think, without putting any defensive "spin" on Klara's query.

The one time I tried to "Paint by Numbers" I got totally bored within 10 minutes. I thence proceeded to fill in the numbers with random unrelated colors. I left random numbered spots unpainted. My Modern Art Masterpiece was on my bedroom wall until I moved into my first apartment, where I placed it on a tripod meant to hold a souvenir plate. The few times I've tried to knit by pattern, I've also found myself yawning hugely. My cure for boredom? Go off on a tangent! Have FUN! BTW, my brother-in-law loved to paint by numbers, and eventually found a company that would take a person's favorite photograph of that person's favorite person and turn the photo into a paint-by-the-numbers portrait! To each one's own!
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Milinda
Permanent Resident

USA
3817 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  2:48:53 PM  Show Profile Send Milinda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do not detect any squabbling. I think we were giving our different perspectives after being asked a question.

Nothing is wrong with paint by numbers or patterns or anything. We're just talking.

M L
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KathyR
Permanent Resident

New Zealand
2969 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  2:52:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit KathyR's Homepage Send KathyR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even if it were true that "knitting by pattern is like painting by numbers", what's wrong with that?

Many people feel that they have no artistic talent and if they find joy in painting by numbers, so what!

Many people do not have the confidence to go it alone when it comes to knitting - at least they are finding fulfillment knitting using a pattern.

How many of us see clothing we like on the rack and buy it? We know there will be a multitude of people out there wearing the exact same piece of clothing and we don't care.

A pattern is an excellent starting point. If we knit exactly to the pattern, that is fine. If we have the confidence to make minor, or even major changes, that is fine too.

I have no problem with myself, or any other person, knitting from a pattern.

KathyR

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
My Blog
http://www.flickr.com/groups/kr_members/ (Roselea Fibres)
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busygirl
Permanent Resident

New Zealand
1673 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  3:04:52 PM  Show Profile Send busygirl a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said, Kathy - couldn't have put it better myself!

Leslie

My Blog
http://au.360.yahoo.com/abreyleslie
My Pics
http://www.flickr.com/photos/busygirl/
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Genuine
New Pal

44 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  3:37:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Genuine's Homepage Send Genuine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love paint by numbers. Hurrah! I are mindless knitter!



A little snark, and sweaters. My blog.
http://thelumpysweater.wordpress.com
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WendyB
Permanent Resident

3262 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  4:29:14 PM  Show Profile Send WendyB a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love this place. Let's all go out to Ben & Jerry's for some ice cream. We can discuss it there.
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llknits
Chatty Knitter

201 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2008 :  6:41:05 PM  Show Profile Send llknits a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And here I was feeling good about myself that I was actually beginning to understand the pattern directions! Ha!
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