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megknits
Sustaining Member
USA
728 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2008 : 5:58:37 PM
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(Sorry this is under the spinning topic -- I didn't know where else to put it, and there are a lot of spinners who also weave.)
I'm a pretty new self-taught weaver, and I'm running into problems with a warp I'm trying to wind onto the loom. It's a pretty fine cashmere yarn that seems to have very little tensile strength. It breaks with very little pressure. At the same time, the warp threads are very "sticky" with their neighbors, so inevitably they seem to tangle as I wind the warp, and then break. So far I've broken about six threads, and I'm only doing a 10 inch wide scarf. When the first couple broke I thought I would just use replacement threads and hang weights on them, but at this point I think the tension on the whole warp roll is now uneven, so I fear there will be even more breakage as I weave.
Should I just rip it off the loom and toss it or is there some way to salvage this mess? The value of the yarn is about $20, so it won't break the bank, but I just hate to give up. On the other hand, it's making me crazy....
Meg
Meg
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but laziness is her favorite aunt. |
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident
France
1426 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 12:09:33 AM
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Sorry, I'm not an experienced enough weaver to know how to salvage the mess - but I have an idea on how to avoid it in future (one that fits in very well under the spinning header): When I want angora in the warp I use a yarn that's one ply angora and one ply silk (handspun). Then, even if the angora part breaks, there's still the silk to hold the thread in place. Even if you are not really a spinner (or are you?) it might be worth it getting/making a spindle for respinning weak yarns and plying them with something more solid.
Good luck! Klara
http://www.lahottee.info |
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Wheat
Gabber Extraordinaire
USA
406 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 04:54:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by megknits
.. running into problems with a warp I'm trying to wind onto the loom. It's a pretty fine cashmere yarn that seems to have very little tensile strength. It breaks with very little pressure.
Cashmir is a very short fiber and unless spun fairly tightly is difficult to use in a warp (wonderful weft though)
There are yarns which are, for many reasons, not really appropriate for use as a warp unless you are willing to "adapt".
Many yarns prepared for hand knitting are more loosely spun for softness and it sounds like that may be at the heart of your problem.
Although presently a "yahoo group" you may want to consider joining the weaving list which has a long and wonderful history of helping new weavers.
Life is too short for trying to create a viable warp with threads that do not pass the "snap test" and it sounds like your yarn is too loosely spun to stand up to the tension of a warp.
The stickiness is a different problem and might be solved by a looser sett or even a mixed warp (having pig headedly insisted on one of my first weaving project being a mohair warp against ALL advice, I am speaking from hard won experience <G>)
BTW I am NOT saying that yarns for Hand knitting cannot be used for warp and weft, just that these yarns present a different set of challenges - particularly in the choices you make for warp and take up issues both vertically and horizontally.
Oh, yeah, it is often helpful to have some idea of the type of loom you are using for your project - rigid heddle, multi-harness, etc since this sometimes helps find solutions (although I think you would be having similar problems on any loom)
Depending on how your swatch fulled when you washed it to test your choice of sett:
It may be that you can solve your immediate problem by retying the existing warp - perhaps removing a few threads for a more open sett.
Although it does present some of its own problems, you may need to use less tension as you weave (which means more fussing and fiddling with individual weft lines as you weave)
However, I do consider a test, wet finished swatch essential to your project because if the fabric does not full you are going to have a sleazy fabric that may not be desirable.
HTH
Wheat
Don't Let Congress Kill Creativity
Help Stop The Orphans Work Act NOW
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Read What Wheat Wrote: http://www.WheatCarr.com |
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KathyR
Permanent Resident
New Zealand
2969 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 3:24:38 PM
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I agree with what Wheat said and would like to add that it is best to stay away from a warp which is breaking even while being warped on. It will only lead to many frustrations as it is bound to give you even more trouble while weaving due to the abrasion it will receive from the reeds and beater (4 shaft and up) or the rigid heddle.
If I was you, I would be inclined to take off the warp and re-warp with a stronger, more suitable warp thread. You could still use the threads you have taken off in the weft.
KathyR
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
My Blog
http://www.flickr.com/groups/kr_members/ (Roselea Fibres) |
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eepster
Seriously Hooked
USA
704 Posts |
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KS
Seriously Hooked
862 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 5:19:46 PM
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Sticky warps, & sometimes inappropriate ones can be helped by sizing the wrap. There are many recipes for it. The older weaving books have them, or you can Googele "warp sizing".
I once used thinned wallpaper paste on a mohair warp that was almost impossible to get a clean shed on. I sized it before putting it on the loom. It still needed more, so I'd weave a small section & paint it on the next section of warp, allowing it to dry before weaving more. It washed out in the finishing process. It was slow going because I couldn't weave much at one time.
If you really want to continue, some sort of sizing is my suggestion. Otherwise, I'm with Jen.
Good luck!
KS |
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megknits
Sustaining Member
USA
728 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2008 : 8:38:24 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I had also come to the conclusion that it may be more trouble than it's worth to try to salvage it.
The yarn was commercially spun, but quite fine (20/2) and when you give it anything more than a very gentle tug it pulls apart.
I'm using a multi harness loom which I got for Christmas last year. The sizing sounds like it might get kind of messy, so thanks for the advice, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that just yet.
Now I know to try the "tug test" before choosing a warp -- if it breaks with anything less than a fairly strong tug, it's probably not a good choice for warp.
Meg
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but laziness is her favorite aunt. |
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Wheat
Gabber Extraordinaire
USA
406 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 05:37:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by megknits
I'm using a multi harness loom which I got for Christmas last year.
In that case, I highly recommend Deb Chandler's book
Learning to Weave,
http://tinyurl.com/4qlup7
I told her that I consider her book my first weaving teacher <G> so consider it well worth it price and will save you many steps in the weaving Learning Curve.
Even now, decades later, I sometimes find myself going back to it for "basic details"
HTH
Wheat
Don't Let Congress Kill Creativity
Help Stop The Orphans Work Act NOW
Visit: http://www.owoh.org
Read What Wheat Wrote: http://www.WheatCarr.com |
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Fivefibers
Permanent Resident
USA
1131 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 10:40:24 AM
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If at all possible, I think it would behoove you to take weaving lessons.
What sort of loom are you using? Were you putting some kind of padding on along with your warp? I use corrugated cardboard (comes in rolls from weaving supply places like the Mannings), but you could also use brown paper.
Your warp does sound very fine, but it may just have imperfections in it which make it unsuitable for warping. I have used plain angora (my handspun) as both warp and weft in the same project, and have had no trouble.
Fivefibers
2sheep; 3goats; 5bunnies
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megknits
Sustaining Member
USA
728 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 7:52:57 PM
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I'm using an 8 harness loom, 40 inches wide, manufactured by Gilmore Looms. It's pretty old. I do use padding between layers of warp -- I have a roll of a sort very thin plastic foam (not too soft though). I don't know of any weaving lesson places around where I live (Long Island) but I do have the book Wheat recommended, and it's very helpful.
I had a previous four harness loom with direct tie-ups that I made a rep weave stair runner with, and several scarves. I found the new loom on eBay for $500 plus freight charges (another couple of hundred dollars since it had to travel all the way across the country). It's old -- it was used in a weaving school in California, but still in good condition. My husband did a lot of work on it for me, such as fabricating a brake system, and I bought all new heddles, and tie up cords etc. So far I've made a table runner and several scarves, but used tencel for them. This was my first attempt with cashmere, and obviously I forgot about testing the yarn to see if it would make a good warp before starting (duh).
I also spin, but I haven't yet used my handspun for a project.
Meg
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but laziness is her favorite aunt. |
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Kade1301
Permanent Resident
France
1426 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 06:28:39 AM
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Fivefibres, that just shows that good handspun is much better than badly millspun yarn ;-)
http://www.lahottee.info |
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Weaving Advice Needed
